Sensible or shitty to try and negotiate a small reduction?

[PreferQuietlife]

The property we are bying went on market in May, was very under-priced by the agents, they had 25 people ring them for viewings on the first day. We offered 250k which was 30% over asking, cash, offer accepted.

Sellers were a mother-daughter, co-owners. Mother passed away a week after our offer was accepted. Sent a messag to the daughter, via agent, of condolences, that we sadly understand the pain of bereavement and the deathmin, and that we’d wait with our offer until she sorted things out no hurry. She got a different solicitors and 6 weeks later we were back on track. Daughter doesn’t know much about house and hasn’t been able to respond to most queries. House needs complete renovation, which we knew, and builder has reported dry rot throughout all the floors. The market is terrible in our area for the most part, and the prices have gone down. This particular property, although in awful condition, is in a really good area surrounded by much pricier properties.

We are in a position now to exchange and close in the next couple of weeks. The agent is ringing me almost every day, he says "to make sure things are on track."

We’re wondering whether to ask for a small reduction to reflect the market downturn and the dry rot, something like “If you can agree to 5k off, we’ll change next week." That’s only 2% of the agreed upon price. There is speculation amongst our friends that agent put it it on very low because he hoped to sell to his property developer pal. We do have some fears that the property developer pal might still be lurking in the background... But he seems quite anxious to get the sale through, so perhaps it's because he just does not want to lose a sale. The Seller now has two caravans on the market, with the same agent (since her mum died).

Is asking for a small reduction sensiible or shitty? It would massively help with our anxiety about the falling market and the dry rot, and with the budget for the renovation. But we don't want to be told to get lost and lose the place to a property developer either...

If you think we should ask for a reduction, shall we ask the agent to discuss it with the Seller, or should we write an email direct for the Seller?

Honestly, personally I think it’s a bit shitty. Especially with the threat of ‘do this and we’ll exchange next week’. You said the property was very undervalued so I’m assuming your offer, although over asking, was still under the value. Happy to be told i’m wrong by other posters and it is your choice but I do think it would be a pretty crap thing to do.

I think it's a bit shitty tbh especially given the circumstances re the mother's death, doesn't make your condolences seem very sincere.

Still, buying and selling property IS a dirty game. You could try asking for a 5k reduction through the EA using the dry rot as your reason and see what the daughter says. She may just agree to it for an easy life as sounds like she has a lot on her plate.

If someone tried to strongarm me like that when I had had 25 viewings, I would tell them to piss off. Especially in the way you are putting it.

This being an inheritance plus two caravans for sale, does the daughter seem desperate for the money? I doubt it.

Sounds like you need the house more than the seller needs you.

For the sake of 5k, no.

I would have a different response if it were 15k. 5k is not worth losing a house you need.

I don’t think three months is a reasonable length of time to play the ‘house prices are falling’ card either. Nine months - sure.

You could ask her to fix the dry rot. But it seems it was already a bargain. In terms of neglected house repairs, this is small fry really.

Thanks for the responses so far. The valuation was 220 and the agent dropped in that the closest non-developer offer to ours was 225 so it seems like we are paying over the odds. There were only three offers. We think there were so many viewings because of the low price, but the condition is really terrible (think non-functioning kitchen or bathroom, would be hard to get a mortgage on it).

I was thinking of the offer to exchange very fast (next week) with a small reduction might be something the daughter would find helpful/wants, because the agent is so keen to push forward quickly, phoning me almost every day. I wasn't thinking of it as having her over a barrel.

My partner feels the same as you @KievLoverTwo that either we pay as agreed or if we're going to ask for a reduction we make it a significant one, more like 10k. To me, though, that feels shitty.

Shitty

Don’t do it.

In the grand scheme of things (and as a % of £250k) it’s not enough to risk upsetting the sale. You were happy to bid this price, just go with it. Be content that you’ve got a home in a really good area that you will be able to increase in value, in line with your new neighbours.

I'd get some quotes for the dry rot, and consider asking for that amount off, if the cost is more than £5k.

I don't think it's worth it for less.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating that you ask for more than 5k off.

If the immediate extent of works that need doing are 5k, I don't think you should ask for anything at all off.

Yes, it's generally accepted that people negotiate off the back of a survey, but I don't think your seller will be in a rush and you may risk losing the house.

I also think it's normal for this sort of thing to come back on a property such as your description, and they should have already priced that in.

If the 5k is too much of a financial stretch then maybe it's not the right time in your life to purchase this particular type of property, when mortgage rates and the cost of renovations are both so high?

Shitty.

Are you prepared to lose it?

You were prepared to offer over the odds to secure it. Why do you think £5k is going to make a difference now?

Every other property in this area that's come on since May (when this sale was agreed) remains unsold, more than half of them have had a reduction, some of them have had two reductions.

I'd have been fine sticking with the price we agreed, even though we know it's very high, if the market was steady state. It's the drop in the market that has us spooked.

Thinking about it, I think the dry rot is maybe a red herring. We did already know it needed a complete renovation. It's the market that's the big deal.

I think the risk is, would the daughter decide she was so annoyed about a reduction she'd rather start again with a developer? Or put it back on the market with what's happened since. In May there were 7 properties in this postcode. Now 23. The state of the house also means only cash buyers.

It seems really shitty. If they refused your lower price would you pull out?

I can't answer your question re the daughter.

All I can suggest is that rather than asking for money off, you ask her if she can see about getting it fixed. Personally, this would annoy me less than someone saying 'we'll exchange next week only if you meet our demands.' If you are that close to exchange, you are gazundering. The risk this carries is the EA may well advise the vendor 'if they're doing it now, they might do it again the day before exchange.' You need only need to search the word on here to see how common it's becoming and how wary people are of people making last minute demands (no matter how reasonable!). The key thing is that you are so close. If exchange was a month away, it would be seen less and gazundering and more as negotiations off the back of a survey.

Re: the market scaring you, it depends on your motivation for buying the house.

If your intent is to flip it, in a falling market with high refurb costs, that's a big risk, you might lose money, or if it's such a good location you might make money.

If you want to do it up, live there for five years then you know you will have to move again, also possibly a risk.

If either of you are nervous about a recession, your jobs and your ability to afford renovations, this is simply the wrong house to buy at this point in time.

If you are buying it as a long term family home, it doesn't really matter what the market is doing, as long as you can afford the refurb costs.

Some introspection required, perhaps?

Just because a home may be worth 20k less in six months doesn't mean it won't be the best home for your needs. It's primarily a home, and the location and bones are the most important thing.

I can not tell you how shitty this is, I work with the second hand housing market and this is a tactic used often and every person dealing with this will despise you.

YOU offered over the asking price, YOU weren't forced to, YOU want the house. You're now backing them in to a corner because you're so close to exchange which is disgusting.

If you do this I hope they cancel the sale and find another buyer even if they have to take a hit.

This would be poor form. The market could fall further. You’re buying a house not a financial instrument. £5k now won’t matter ina few years. Don’t ask for a discount now. You want this particular house ; if price is so important get one of the other ones still for sale in the area.

Property prices were falling in May when you bought the house and you knew that. You offered anyway because you saw the house as a good investment. What has really changed is that you feel in a stronger bargaining position now because you think the daughter is in a weaker position as it's just you and her not you and loads of other intereted buyers.

Every person who has replied on this thread sees it as a shitty thing so you got your answer. Nevertheless, people do this sort of thing all the time with property transactions. It's up to you whether you do the shitty thing or not.

I think it's sensible to be considering a larger reduction than the 5k you mention - if you are of a mind to renegotiate.
It's a gamble though - as you might not end up with the house. I think you need to take all the emotion out of it and just look at the numbers. Try to guage how much are you overpaying by and how much will it cost to bring the house up to the standard of the others that are for sale. Once you have that figure then you decide if that particularly house is the one for you and if its worth it to you to pay for it.
Yes it's shitty, for the seller, for you to renegotiate. BUT we are in unprecedented times. 14 base rate interest increases and counting, inflation far from having been controlled, cost of living rises and reports of a possible recession, prices falls accelerating. You have to put your families interest first above other moral considerations. It's a shitty situation but that situation isn't your fault.

In that case, continue with the sale price agreed.

You sound nervous about potentially losing the house so it's not worth the risk.

If the market had boomed and the house was now worth 5-10% more than in May and the seller demanded you up your offer, would you feel that was fair?

I was coming here to say exactly the same as @BadCider.

OP, if the seller came to you and said "sorry, the market has climbed in the last three months - I know we're about to exchange but you'll need to pay another £5k to get the house"....how would you feel?

My feeling is that if you were asked for more money at such a late stage, you'd feel very pissed off. And rightly so, imo.

So the same applies in reverse. Asking for money off now is a shitty thing to do, just because the market has shifted.

As PP have said, unless you're planning on moving again in the next few years then you don't really need to worry. You said it's a strong area with pricier housing, so by doing the renovations you should end up with a property that's a fantastic investment, as well as being a beautiful home.

Property often isn't a great short-term investment, unless the market is hot. But in the longer term it almost always rises, you just need to ignore whatever the market is doing while you're living there as it doesn't matter. It's only when the time comes to sell that you need to pay attention to the market and valuation. So provided that's not likely to be for a while AND you can afford the mortgage/borrowing/renovations, there's no need to worry about what's happened to the market in the last three months - or what will happen in the coming months.

Also, just to add, we bought a fixer-upper last year. There was lots of interest and it went to sealed bids.

The survey came up with a few surprises - we were initially going to ask for another £10k off when we got the survey results. This was obviously a very long time before exchange, it was right at the start. Ultimately though, we decided not to ask for a reduction and we ended up buying at the full price that we offered.

The biggest problems with the house were mainly going to be resolved with the renovations we were doing anyway, and we didn't want to risk losing the house for a paltry reduction.

We're midway through the work now and buying it was still the smartest move we ever made. It will be beautiful when it's all finished. I don't know what it's valued at now and I'm not interested - it's just a lovely house that's ours!

It’s shitty, you’re trying to blackmail her last minute. If you weren’t happy with the survey you should have addressed that earlier. She’s probably not reliant on the sale and may well decide to drop you

Its your money that will service the debt. It should not bother you to protect your future cash flow x

That’s quite shitty. You knew about the dry rot ages ago and you already got money off.

Cheap house in an expensive location is the dream buy. I think you'd be shitty not to proceed with the original price.

I think this would be particularly nasty in this situation because the delay was caused by a bereavement because of which you indicated clearly you would wait.

It's only really that delay that allowed for a market downturn. If the market had gone up, the seller wouldn't now be saying give me more - and if they did, you'd be really pissed off.

I don't understand why no one has any common decency these days. What happened to treat others as you would like to be treated?

I think you've left it too late in the process to ask for a reduction now. It would
seem like you're trying it on this close to exchange.