Page 5 | What's the point in buying a house (with £thousands in interest) only to lose it to pay for your social care?

milleniaaal · 2023-08-20T22:13:59+00:00

Genuine question. I'm a Millenial and I've recently learned that if you need some sort of care in old age for things like mobility issues, carers or you need 24 assistance, care home etc. then the government can literally take your home, sell it and use it to pay for all of those things. It doesn't make sense to me that this can happen after you've paid years and years towards tax, NI and council tax etc.

BorgQueen · 21/08/2023 22:38

Yes, I worked in a home about 15 years ago, there were people who were paying £700 a week, there were people paying nothing except their State pension. Identical rooms, identical care.

Enoughnowbrandon · 22/08/2023 08:17

ShowOfHands · 21/08/2023 11:00

All of the people saying you get to choose a care home, not necessarily true. My Grandma was in hospital aged 90 following a fall and they wouldn't discharge her to her home as she was assessed as needing FT care. It was clear they would fight any wish she had to return to her own home. There was one place available in a dementia home (she'd didn't have dementia) and the choices were either move her a very long way away making visits very tough or leave her in an understaffed ward where they were pushing us to move her out. We had to take the place available and she sold her bungalow and paid 1k a week for care in a wholly inappropriate setting. We couldn't get her moved.

It upset her so deeply. She had been a carer for her daughter (my aunt) her whole life and she and my Grandad were desperate to leave enough money for my aunt's ongoing care. The money was gone 2yrs after she went into the home and she felt like she'd failed.

On balance, I think good care would have been different but she was in an inappropriate home for her needs with no companionship, no mental challenge or enrichment and residents who were declining and had severe needs. We visited at least once every day for 4 years. She did not get the care she was paying for. The care you could argue she'd worked hard to earn.

@ShowOfHands that's so sad. Thank goodness you were able to visit daily, that must have meant the world to her. 💐

FerryPink · 22/08/2023 09:10

it gives you a home you can't be turfed out of on the whim of a landlord
There's no guarantee what the state is going to be paying for in terms of care by the time we are old, resources will be even more stretched
a lot of my relatives avoided care homes for a long time /entirely by using their pension to fund private care visits/a cleaner etc. They could only do this because they had paid off their mortgage

TripleDaisySummer · 22/08/2023 09:29

Having money gave my paternal grandparent options regarding care - though higher the medical needs the fewer options there actually were in practise and I think decades since that has got worse.

Not paying rent means my parents have more disposable income which has helped last few years because there have been a huge number of costs related to dad care - most of which has been done by Mum - they also had option of buying long term help in their house which was staggeringly expensive.

Also means DMum who pension isn't great - will have an asset if/when she is widowed - she can downsize or move to cheaper area - freeing up cash to buy an annuity or live off.

Main reason we bought though was stability - we couldn't be move on by landlords at bad time like exam years - overtime amount we pay per month has gone down so it's much cheaper than rent though early years were painful and there are costs to owning a house.

DosCervezas · 22/08/2023 10:30

It's a diabolical situation abd I've seen people forced to give up their homes so they can finance years of social care with absolutely no quality of life in a care home. I've also known people play the game of disposing of all assets far enough in advance that they receive free care. It's a minefield. Personally I'd rather receive euthanasia than sit incontinent , dribbling in the corner of a soulless residence costing a fortune and sacrificing my kid's inheritance. For what!

Thewolvesarerunningagain · 22/08/2023 10:39

Loub55 · 21/08/2023 10:46

Is this correct, my mom did end up agreeing to go into the care home. But the social worker had said that if she didn't they would do a best interests evaluation and could deem it necessary?

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@Loub55 You can be obliged to accept a care home if you are deemed to lack mental capacity but otherwise no not really. On the other hand if you are renting, you can be evicted for not being able to keep the property up to scratch, which would oblige you to be more flexible in accepting a care home placement. If you own your own house, are mortgage free and, as another poster has noted, can use some pension to pay for outside help then its a lot harder for them to make the case that residential care is needed. Obviously if you are suffering from dementia or Alzheimers that also complicates the picture, though again I don't believe social care services can or want to just cart you off against your will.

MrsSkylerWhite · 22/08/2023 10:40

Thethingswedoforlove · 20/08/2023 23:17
You get to live in your own house for probably decades. You might not need care. And if you do you can choose where you want to go for that care. And why should the government pay for the care of those who can afford to pay for it?”

This. Why shouldn’t the elderly pay for their care if they can afford to?

KnittedCardi · 23/08/2023 11:45

1 in 3 of those over 85 need "some level of care". So whether that be a care home, or carers IN your own home, it's still nicer to be able to pay and pick and choose your won, rather than rely on the state.

meditrina · 23/08/2023 11:54

You are paying for

security of tenure - no landlord giving notice at just the wrong time
being able to arrange the house just as you want it
having an asset that it likely to appreciate in value over time, and against which you can borrow more or from which you can release equity
it might be not that different in cost to paying rent (you have to live somewhere)
if you do sell to pay for care, you may well have a wider choice of care homes than a state-funded basic place
you could stay in your own home and buy in the care you need

And you can't take it with you when you go. Even in paying for your care zeros your material assets, you are still leaving the world with the same as you arrived in it. And you might have had a nicer journey on the way - or at least more choice about what your journey is like

Loub55 · 24/08/2023 07:56

Thewolvesarerunningagain · 22/08/2023 10:39

@Loub55 You can be obliged to accept a care home if you are deemed to lack mental capacity but otherwise no not really. On the other hand if you are renting, you can be evicted for not being able to keep the property up to scratch, which would oblige you to be more flexible in accepting a care home placement. If you own your own house, are mortgage free and, as another poster has noted, can use some pension to pay for outside help then its a lot harder for them to make the case that residential care is needed. Obviously if you are suffering from dementia or Alzheimers that also complicates the picture, though again I don't believe social care services can or want to just cart you off against your will.

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Yes she is suffering from dementia and it was the mental capacity that SS were questioning. I still thought she was ok with the 4 carer calls but the care agency had concerna and then DM actually started to get anxious and bothering the neighbours a lot so they had raised concerns too. Best thing is she chose herself but now we have to sell the house which is a hard thing, haven't been through that with her yet...

IhearyouClemFandango · 24/08/2023 07:59

You think you should not buy something to live in every day for say 30 years, because of what might happen at the end of that time for a couple of years? How illogical.

ASoapImpressionOfHisWifeWhichHeAte · 24/08/2023 08:02

MuggleMe · 20/08/2023 23:17

Because the majority of people won't need to pay for care, because you usually have decades of paid off mortgage before you do need to pay for care, and because it can pay for a higher quality of care than without going private, and it gives you more security than being beholden to a landlord.

I used to believe this... until we were looking at private homes for my granny and even the "top rated" ones were understaffed, cabbage-and-piss scented rat holes.

Temporaryname158 · 24/08/2023 18:51

I can rent my house out for £1200pcm if I wanted to. That’s what my neighbours pay and that rental isn’t as nice as mine. My mortgage is £500. Reason enough bo buy not rent. I’ll also have paid it off at 62 at the latest, I hope to have many years enjoying that and not needing a care home then.