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It's a boundary / access one

12 replies

Messyhair321 · 18/08/2023 09:52

Purple area is our entrance to our garden. Green is what's on property deeds. Black is the fence put up as agreed with agent during property purchase (completed weeks ago). Agent was involved & neighbour. Neighbour (red line top left of pic) has no access rights. Agent selling persuaded us to fence the area off & extend it to the stream - we don't own the bit by the stream (wavy blue line). This is unregistered land that no-one knows who owns. We don't think we have true rights to extend to the stream & boundary is just before this.
Neighbour top left has an allotment (wavy red line) on right of our property,). He agreed as part of the sale that he would go around the road to access this area. Allotment is also unregistered land but he uses it. Previous owner said he had no access rights across her land & there was never any agreement that he could. Clearly he was going across though.

The neighbour at the bottom left (red line) his garden ends on the red line & he has no access however our garden ends before the stream & so really nor do we.
However the area at the stream needs some sort of maintenance so we were hoping we'd be able to use this area & tidy it up.
Now we were persuaded to put a fence just inside of the boundary on neighbours side as agent didn't think that the boundary was quite right, to be fair it probably wasn't. We were supposed to butt the fence up at the bottom near the stream against a small building (an old sluice & we don't know who's owns that probably the same person as owns the riverbank). However we didn't because there was so much overgrowth.
BUT now the top neighbour has forged through the overgrowth & is now walking through the side of our garden fence area & has made it into a path. (Red dots on side of the fence).
We spoke to the solicitor we used with the purchase & he said that this neighbour has no access rights at all & we should just reposition the fence to the original boundary.

So....We could either do what was originally planned & extend the fence to the sluice gate which will effectively block access & live with the fence as it is or just take the fence we put in back to the original boundary.
Note that nothing has been changed on the land registry, that boundary bordering the end of the other gardens is clear & that's where their gardens stop, no access rights over our land. The bottom left neighbour though could probably access the stream & I think they've come to an arrangement that top neighbour can use his land to go through to the stream & access his allotment. However he's effectively going through our garden to get to it (other side of the fence).
It's clear where the end of his garden is because he'd put a gate in at the foot of his garden (which is why we questioned access in the first place).
I don't think it's clear where the boundary is exactly BUT what is clear is that top left neighbour has no access rights across our property.
We don't really care in all honesty about losing a little bit of land to the side of our garden but we do really mind this neighbour walking around the fence & across the stream. It's just weird.
One thought was that we could position a composting bin behind the fence or forge out a space for one in the fence. This would effectively prevent access too.
It's about 2-3 ft from the original boundary.
Bottom left neighbour doesn't care what we do, but is chummy with top left neighbour.

It's a boundary / access one
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Messyhair321 · 18/08/2023 09:59

Black thing on bottom left corner of the fenced area is a gate we put in.
To add more complications the agent selling sent us an agreed document which shows that we own all the land right up to the stream. We now don't think we do & yesterday the solicitor said that our land ends before the stream. So we feel that the agent might have made things a bit worse for us on reflection.

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Seeline · 18/08/2023 10:06

Are you in England?
By Agent do you mean the estate agent who sold you the property? If so why would he tell you to put up a fence?
It all sounds a bit complicated. I would put the fence on my boundary and leave everyone else to sort themselves out.

Messyhair321 · 18/08/2023 10:47

Yes in England. I think agent got involved because there had been a dispute between the seller & this neighbour. It seemed very petty, like 'you clipped a bit off my bush ' sort of thing. We wanted to make sure no access was clear, seems like we've given this neighbour a ratrun by trying to define the garden.
Shouldn't have listened to the agent because land registry can't change the boundary.

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Messyhair321 · 18/08/2023 10:48

Seeline · 18/08/2023 10:06

Are you in England?
By Agent do you mean the estate agent who sold you the property? If so why would he tell you to put up a fence?
It all sounds a bit complicated. I would put the fence on my boundary and leave everyone else to sort themselves out.

Yes estate agent & in UK

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FeigningConcern · 18/08/2023 10:52

What's it got to go with the estate agent where you put your fence. You seem to have been listening to them far too much. There only interest is in getting you to buy or sell your house. They'll tell you any old shit to get a sale over the line. I wouldn't have been consulting with them on boundary issues and neighbour disputes.

Your fence should go at the edge of your property. I'm unsure why you haven't done this and what the purpose was in leaving a gap. It looks like a gap has been left so it can be used as a path. If you do this people will use it as a path if it looks like one, so this is presumably what the neighbour is doing?

Regardless. Put your fence where it is supposed to be. Job done then surely?

Your post sounds like you are really over complicating the situation unless there's something I've missed?

Lellochip · 18/08/2023 10:56

Yeah, all the stream stuff is irrelevant, the issue is just your fence is a few ft within your garden, and neighbour is now using the strip of your garden that's on the opposite side of the fence? You say you don't mind him doing this but you're not happy he's walking across the stream which isn't yours anyway - I'm not sure you can complain about that.

All you can do is fence in your own land, if that removes his access to the stream then that's his problem. Your real issue is clarifying your boundary at the stream end.

Lellochip · 18/08/2023 10:59

Your fence should go at the edge of your property. I'm unsure why you haven't done this and what the purpose was in leaving a gap. It looks like a gap has been left so it can be used as a path. If you do this people will use it as a path if it looks like one, so this is presumably what the neighbour is doing?

My previous owner did this for some unknown reason, my NDN doesn't have their own fence so have effectively gained a larger garden. Day to day I don't mind but don't like the potential future argument with a neighbour for the sake of a few sq ft, wish the fence was where it should be!

Messyhair321 · 18/08/2023 12:10

The 'gap' wasn't really a gap when the fence was erected, because the garden was overgrown. Fencer didn't want to intrude on footings of the other gardens I believe that was it, but in essence also the EA and my DH & neighbour all agreed that the boundary wasn't correct. I think EA was trying to make a compromised.
We're going to have to move the fence back aren't we?

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Fooksticks · 18/08/2023 12:23

One estate agent told us it was fine to have an unauthorised building (attached to the house) and there'd be no problem. Apart from it invalidating our house insurance and potentially needing to be taken down if council asked.

Real estate agents LIE for a living.

MinnieGirl · 18/08/2023 13:56

It’s not down to the EA your husband and your neighbour to decide where the boundary is! You need to sort this very quickly or you will have major issues in the future. Go back to your solicitor. Follow their advice, and make sure both neighbours know that there is no access right over your property.

Estate agents would sell their own mothers to get a sale…. And your neighbours have been spinning you a tale…. If you really can’t be firm blame your solicitor….
Our solicitor has been very clear that we cannot accommodate this as it sets a precedent and will make problems in the future. Thank you for understanding.

Some very CF behaviour…

LIZS · 18/08/2023 14:16

Neither of you have right to use space by stream, let alone enclose it. Why is the fence on lhs not on boundary?

Messyhair321 · 18/08/2023 20:24

MinnieGirl · 18/08/2023 13:56

It’s not down to the EA your husband and your neighbour to decide where the boundary is! You need to sort this very quickly or you will have major issues in the future. Go back to your solicitor. Follow their advice, and make sure both neighbours know that there is no access right over your property.

Estate agents would sell their own mothers to get a sale…. And your neighbours have been spinning you a tale…. If you really can’t be firm blame your solicitor….
Our solicitor has been very clear that we cannot accommodate this as it sets a precedent and will make problems in the future. Thank you for understanding.

Some very CF behaviour…

Thank you we've been to see them, they didn't like it but other neighbour said that the fence was obviously in the wrong position so that sort of sorted it, we're moving it next week.
Neighbour was predictably saying that the land was 'already his'.
At least it'll be sorted & we've said in no uncertain terms he's got no rights across our land. I think we inherited this problem because it's obvious that there was a dispute but sellers didn't tell us the extent of it.

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