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Original poster

Chimney breast removal nightmare

29 replies

Karlie1703 · 10/08/2023 21:56

Hello. Really after some advice pls as I’m on the verge of a mental breakdown I feel. We are selling and have a buyer. The buyer sent a surveyor round from the bank, whose report highlight that the chimney breast in my front room has been removed and is inadequately supported in my bedroom. We bought the house in 2014 and it was picked up by my solicitor or my lender - I have raised a complaint with the solicitors - thabks to a thread I read on here. However I’ve been told by estate agents that are selling my house that the surveyor requires me to instruct a chartered structural engineer to inspect and provide a costed report . Which I did. I paid him £400 . On the back of the report I asked the estate agents would the buyers like me to knock that off the price and they do the works. She said yes they would be happy to do that provided the lender lends the money. I was then told that no they won’t lend the money. So my only option was to 1- get the work done, 2- go back on the market in the hope that someone wouldn’t pick it up or if they did would still lend but do a redemption.
so I decided to go down the route of having the work done. But before I did instruct the engineer I called the council to ask if they would be happy with the recommendation I had been given. They asked to see the report and said it was no good to them as it didn’t include structural calculations. So I called the engineer who said that was going to cost me a furter £450. I’m abit concerned the engineer is out for himself and wants money as he has quoted me £6150 to remove the chimney breast in my bedroom and a third of the chimney breast in the loft and advising me to notify my neighbour and saying he cld refuse and then he has to do a party wall application which is going to cost us £3k. So I called another CSE who said if next door had gallows brackets we wouldn’t be able to said we would need a steal beam. Which is what I was also told by the council earlier on in the process. I called my CSE back and explained and he said he doesn’t know much about steals ! Alarm bells were ringing! But he’s insisting he knows what is right for my house and his is the cheapest option. I really am loosing my mind over all this. All the while I’ve been speaking to the council hoping they can advise me but they are not really helping me at all. Just telling me to get the calculations from the engineer and they cld say yes or no. But that’s another £450 cost! All the while I’m being told by estate agent that my buyer has to go with this particular lender and they have said no to lending until the work is done. Pls can anyone help in any way x

OP posts:

TimeforaGandT · 10/08/2023 21:59

Sorry to hear about your nightmare but, yes, when we have had fireplaces/chimney breasts removed, we have had steel beams put in to support the remainder of the chimney breast above that level.

Original poster

Karlie1703 · 10/08/2023 22:05

Can I pls ask where did you have the steals put in which room, was it expensive? How far was the chimney breast removed pls ? Ie does it stop in your loft? In your bedroom? X

OP posts:

Original poster

Karlie1703 · 10/08/2023 22:06

Did you need a crane to get the steals in? My structural engineer seems dead set against me having steals . Says I’ll need a crane to get them in ect

OP posts:

WhoHidTheCoffee · 10/08/2023 22:08

Have you had any other quotes? Sounds like a big job, I’d get at least three quotes and see where they land, and whether you get a better vibe about any of the others.

StSwithinsDay · 10/08/2023 22:08

I am gobsmacked that a chartered structural engineer knows nothing about steel. Where did you get him from??

Original poster

Karlie1703 · 10/08/2023 22:10

No I haven’t as I thought they would each charge about 600 to come out alone.

OP posts:

StSwithinsDay · 10/08/2023 22:10

Years ago we had a chimney removed from our kitchen. A steel beam was put in place when the chimney breast came out. This steel beam provided support to the bedroom above (which had a fireplace and a chimney).

EbiRaisukaree · 10/08/2023 22:11

Have you thought about underbuilding it by reinstating the lost portion of the stack in the ground floor room? It would be less work and should be possible to make it structurally sound. It seems to me that you need a better engineer to advise you of the options.

TimeforaGandT · 10/08/2023 22:11

They were put in the ceiling of the room from which the chimney breast had been removed ie to support the chimney breast which was still on the floor above. I am afraid I am no good on cost as it was part of a much bigger extension project.

Original poster

Karlie1703 · 10/08/2023 22:13

I know me too! I advertised on bark. I checked he was registered on the IStruct web site and ICE website but he did mention his name was different on their but all other details did match. But it felt abit odd from the get go. Wnated me to pay him before he even came over, turned up with no tools, I had to ask him to open the floor boards to check under neath he didn’t even have a scre driver I had to get him a knife to do it. He’s now claiming all I asked for was a costed report for the bank which I have got

OP posts:

WhoHidTheCoffee · 10/08/2023 22:14

For a full report, I’m sure they would charge - but it might be worth asking whether any would do a no-obligation initial meeting or quick chat over the phone where you outline the scenario. Can you get a personal recommendation?

As for party wall, yes, if it’s on the party wall your neighbours would need to agree and would be within their rights to insist on a party wall survey.

tictactoe1234 · 10/08/2023 22:14

My Bro bought a house with the chimney breast removed

The seller deducted the cost for a new one to be built and my bro had it put straight back in

WasteOfPaint · 10/08/2023 22:25

We have removed the upstairs section of our chimney. The chimney stack above is supported on a steel. I think it cost around £400 for the SE's drawings, and £5,000 to remove the chimney, including the steel. No crane was required, the builders just wrangled it in.

This SE, who 'doesn't know much about steels' sounds well dodgy.

Inkpotlover · 10/08/2023 22:39

We bought a house that had had the chimneys removed and gallows brackets put in their place. Because we were renovating we weren't fussed and still proceeded, but we did have to replace the brackets with steel beams in the ceiling between the downstairs and upstairs rooms as part of the reno. They didn't need craning in though! We have v. high ceilings (think Victorian terrace) and the builder just used indoor scaffolding.

It's a really standard job, so I would just get a builder round (they won't charge) to give you an estimate for the work and knock it off the sale price. Then it's up to the buyer to sort out.

Thelondonone · 10/08/2023 22:44

We had this in our house and bought and sold with the hallows brackets. I think we bought indemnity insurance for about £25.

SweetPetrichor · 10/08/2023 22:55

Run a mile from an apparent chartered engineer who claims not to know much about steel. No way someone gets chartered without knowing about steel! I think a steel support beam would be a pretty standard approach, and no, I would not expect it to need craned in. (I am a civil-structural engineer, currently working towards ICE chartership.)

Inkpotlover · 11/08/2023 07:56

Re-reading your OP, I think you should pull out of this sale and find a buyer who is happy to sort it out themselves rather than get the work done yourself. It’s really messy - pulling up floors, etc - and it may take you ages to find a decent builder. It could drag on the sale for months! If this buyer’s lender won’t lend without it, that’s not your problem, they should find a different lender.

Original poster

Karlie1703 · 11/08/2023 10:33

The estate agent is telling me they can only lend from Halifax and Halifax is refusing to lend until the work is done. Not sure if they are just trying it on. Thinking cld it be the lender has advised it needs doing. And will still lend and they are just making me think that to get the works done. Do I have a legal leg to stand on. Can I ask to see it in writing that they are being refused it.

OP posts:

Original poster

Karlie1703 · 11/08/2023 10:34

Thanks so much for the reply ! Great to have this knowledge x

OP posts:

DaphneduM · 11/08/2023 10:50

You say it was not picked up by your solicitor or lender when you purchased the house. But did you have a survey? If so it should definitely have been raised on the survey.

Poor you, I totally understand why you're stressed. We had a large inglenook chimney breast removed - we had a structural engineer round who did the calculations and because of the size and supporting weight it needed three steel beams. Our builder got them in no trouble, just with him and his colleague. The building inspector came round and signed it off once the beams were in place but before it was plastered over, obviously. I think from memory it cost about £7000. We subsequently sold the house without any issues.

Please do not proceed with your present structural engineer, you will be paying good money after bad here - a structural engineer who hasn't heard of steel beams? I doubt he is even qualified to be honest. Not to drag you down even further, but you won't be able to get an indemnity - once you raise something with the council an indemnity is no longer an option.

If you did have a survey, then definitely get in touch with your original surveyor and raise the issue, they may compensate you.

In the meantime I would suggest you get a reputable structural engineer round, and start from scratch and see what he advises you. Sorry OP, a very stressful situation for you to be in.

ClematisBlue49 · 11/08/2023 11:17

Yes, this SE sounds dodgy. Steel beams are commonplace in building projects so it's inconceivable that he can practise and not know much about them. He's also trying it on in terms of cost. I was in a similar position - my SE had done drawings for an extension already, but I then decided to remove a chimney breast in the living room which required an additional visit and drawings. The additional work only cost £240. (I'm in the South East if that makes a difference.)

The cost to remove the upstairs chimney breast sounds high, too, so get other quotes to be sure.

@DaphneduM is correct on the indemnity. I made the mistake of asking the council for advice on an opening in a wall and ended up having to get retrospective BREGs approval (regularisation), which cost about £450.

On the party wall, £3K is well over the top. If the neighbour agrees it shouldn't cost more than a few hundred. If there is a dispute and a full Party Wall Award is required, then £3K is still about double the going rate. I paid £1200 in total.

BlueMongoose · 12/08/2023 09:32

Karlie1703 · 10/08/2023 22:13

It sounds like you need to instruct a different person. The name not being the same sounds very iffy to me just on its own, but other things you mention would put me right off.

Original poster

Karlie1703 · 12/08/2023 09:56

I’ve had a breakthrough moment I spoke to some more senior at the council that has said they will do a curtesy visit to us Monday ti see exactly what we need. Feel so relieved . My worry was I was gonna instruct someone to do the works and pay thousands and then the council says no that’s not compliant . Feels good knowing they are on board from the start. Yeah I think I’m gonna go with my gut feel and drop out the bloke that came round to inspect and do costed report

OP posts:

ClematisBlue49 · 12/08/2023 10:49

@Karlie1703 , that's good news. Maybe the person from the council will be able to recommend a competent SE? My council also has a list of contractors approved by Trading Standards, so that might be worth looking at if yours has one. My experience of Building Control on the regularisation issue and on my current renovation has all been very positive, so fingers crossed your situation will be resolved before too long.

Original poster

Karlie1703 · 12/08/2023 11:25

Ty very much.

OP posts:

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