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Ethics of second home ownership

32 replies

Anotherhome · 08/08/2023 09:24

Is it always unethical to own a second home?
As briefly as possible but with all the details:
We own our own home without a mortgage.
We live in a not beautiful town which is where we need to live for getting to work etc.
We have fallen in love with a very beautiful seaside village where we have visited lots of times, staying in the one tiny hotel or in an AirBNB.
It's a very small village but very close (2 miles one way, 4 miles the other) to much bigger towns. In the village there are 2 pubs, cafes and restaurants, one hotel, a couple of gift shops... No school. No nursery. No GP surgery or dentist or optician etc. It feels like a holiday village. There are quite a lot of holiday homes but they don't seem popular outside of school holidays really.
Properties stay on the market for ages. Some houses sell reasonably quickly but flats have been on the market for months despite being share of freehold and very reasonable service charge.
We would love to buy a flat there. We would not rent it out commercially as there seem to be too many problems associated with that nowadays but would let it cheaply to family and friends if we weren't using it eg in school holidays. We would use it quite a lot and could WFH there sometimes (we both do blended work) or just go for a break. We would definitely use the amenities such as cafes and restaurants etc, as would any of our family that were using it. Our adult children would also use it.
I don't think we'd be taking it away from families that desperately want accommodation there. The nearby towns are cheaper and more convenient (have trains etc!) and properties sell better there.
But I'm not sure if I'm missing some big ethical problem where second homes are always wrong.
Thoughts? (And I do know we're lucky to be in this position etc etc).

OP posts:
GOODCAT · 08/08/2023 09:30

The problem with it is the lack of affordable homes for only home owners. Without people who can afford two homes it would reduce the price of all homes at least at the lower end of the market.

Additionally unless you can also travel in a carbon neutral way between homes, the additional travel is not ethical from a climate change perspective.

XelaM · 08/08/2023 09:33

Sounds lovely. Go for it 👍

PragmaticWench · 08/08/2023 09:37

I don't see the problem with split living, very different to keeping another property just for two weeks of the year.

BenWeatherstaff · 08/08/2023 09:43

I think it doesn’t always need to be unethical, or at least you can make choices in how to use the property more or less ethically.

If you don’t need to make money from the second property, could you use it to host a refugee family for a set period of time, or to provide affordable/free holiday accommodation to people who otherwise wouldn’t afford a break, or some other charitable enterprise?

Or If you would be there often could you get involved in the seaside community in an altruistic way? Running events, sourcing funding or sponsorship for needed amenities, supporting older or vulnerable residents?

worjen · 08/08/2023 10:24

Eee tough, when you break down the 'ethics' I think there's a lot to consider. So many things to consider and I might be an unpopular voice, so take or leave this as you will... Fwiw I love that you're pausing to ask the question <3

First off - it might be good to check out local community Facebook pages for the area. Scroll back a bit and see if people are complaining about second home owners in the area. I guess if they're not selling fast then you're not snapping it up from in front of people.

Secondly - it's undoubtedly privilege to own a second home isn't it - but I'm not saying it's unethical because I think that's hugely subjective. I live in an area where nearly everyone council rents and there are so many people who would love to be on the housing ladder who can't be because of chronically low paid jobs. We nearly bought a second home in a pretty scuzzy little seaside town nearby to share with others for little holidays (cos our first house is a cheap as chips northern tiny terrace) but I'm glad we didn't because it would honestly have been uncomfortable owning 2 homes when others on our doorstep are desperate to get on the housing ladder but can't ever raise a deposit. So for us - it didn't feel ethical at that time. But proximity changes lots of things I guess. I love the suggestion above about using it for good. I saw someone on Twitter the other day who had loaned her home to a family who couldn't afford a break and it was quite beautiful. I'm sure you could connect up with charities working with families who could refer people to come and stay in your second home when you weren't using it or something?

All the best with whatever you decide!

GasPanic · 08/08/2023 11:09

Just bear in mind there appears to be increasing penalities being applied to second home owners in terms of stuff like council tax. This is going to get worse over time not better.

Wsmi · 08/08/2023 11:38

It’s never unethical to own a second home. The incompetence of governments not building new houses and whole new towns to keep up with population increase is not individuals’ problem.

Anotherhome · 08/08/2023 13:54

Thanks everyone.
Lots of good points to think about.
I didn't put it in my opening post as I was worried about coming across too Lady Bountiful but we do have a lot of friends and acquaintances who can't afford to take their children on holidays in school holidays and who we would definitely be offering the flat too, just for the cost of cleaning etc.
I'm glad most people don't think it's too much of a problem. I think we could definitely try and become part of whatever community there is.
I do get the travel implications. The nearest station is 4 miles away from the village but is definitely an easy train journey from our own home - we've already talked about only using bikes when we were there but yes we would probably drive there a fair bit, especially at the start when trying to set it up etc...

OP posts:
roarrfeckingroar · 08/08/2023 14:04

Who really cares? Stop tying yourself up in knots and by the property if you want it.

Anotherhome · 08/08/2023 14:05

To not too!

OP posts:
roarrfeckingroar · 08/08/2023 14:06

Buy

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 08/08/2023 14:06

Be very cautious about offering your flat below the market rate for other friends. In my experience and that of lots of other people, it rarely ends well.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 08/08/2023 14:07

Wsmi · 08/08/2023 11:38

It’s never unethical to own a second home. The incompetence of governments not building new houses and whole new towns to keep up with population increase is not individuals’ problem.

This.

It's no less ethical than having two kids, two cars or two holidays a year.

Giantwindows · 08/08/2023 14:11

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 08/08/2023 14:07

This.

It's no less ethical than having two kids, two cars or two holidays a year.

Well except for the fact that humans need shelter to survive. They don’t need the other things you list. Let’s not pretend it’s never unethical.

I think you’re doing the right thing considering the ethics of it, OP.

HiHoHiHoltsOffToWorkWeGo · 08/08/2023 14:13

It's a very small village but very close (2 miles one way, 4 miles the other) to much bigger towns. In the village there are 2 pubs, cafes and restaurants, one hotel, a couple of gift shops... No school. No nursery. No GP surgery or dentist or optician etc. It feels like a holiday village. There are quite a lot of holiday homes but they don't seem popular outside of school holidays really.

So what you're saying is that the local amenities have already been destroyed by second home ownership, and you want to continue that pattern?

Properties stay on the market for ages. Some houses sell reasonably quickly but flats have been on the market for months despite being share of freehold and very reasonable service charge.

Probably because second home owners have pushed the prices out of the reach of the ordinary local people - like the ones who work in the pubs and cafés you'll no doubt want to make use of - how do you expect those businesses to continue if they cannot get the staff because the staff can't find affordable homes?

We would not rent it out commercially as there seem to be too many problems associated with that nowadays but would let it cheaply to family and friends if we weren't using it eg in school holidays. We would use it quite a lot and could WFH there sometimes (we both do blended work) or just go for a break. We would definitely use the amenities such as cafes and restaurants etc, as would any of our family that were using it. Our adult children would also use it.

Leaving it empty for most of the year is the most unethical option of all - how will those cafes etc survive when even the cottages don't even have holiday makers? As problematic as Airbnb is, it does at least supply a steady stream of people wanting a cream tea at the café.

I don't think we'd be taking it away from families that desperately want accommodation there.

You keep telling yourself that.

Until everybody has one home, noone should have two homes.

Your proposed course of action is the most unethical option open to you, short of turning it into a knocking shop.

RaidFlySpray · 08/08/2023 14:16

Thank you for giving this mindspace. I live in a place very much like you describe. The thing is, there used to be a school, shop etc, but they shut down because of second homes. This place is a ghost town in winter and is uncomfortably packed in the summer. House prices are ridiculous.

Personally, I think it's morally dubious for some in society to own two homes whilst some have none.

MintJulia · 08/08/2023 14:17

In the end, you will have two homes for your sole use while councils struggle to house others. Your buying helps to maintain high local prices, making them inaccessible to local young people who then have to move away if they want their own home. Those are the bare facts.

However, your being there may mean the housing stock is well maintained, local businesses benefit from your trade etc. You need to be happy with the equation in your own head.

Years ago I (as a single) bought a 3 bed house in a village, and I know there was a certain amount of muttering about incomers etc. What the mutterers didn't mention that the house had a hole in the roof and rainwater used to run down the bedroom & dining room walls. No-one had bothered to fix the flashing. The floor boards & windows needed replacing, the whole thing needed insulating and a new heating system, kitchen & bathroom. It had been on the market for 18 months and been reduced twice so I was hardly jumping the queue. I spent all my disposable income for the next three years, with local tradespeople, and when I left, I sold on a house that was well maintained, didn't bring down the value of the houses around, and was safe and warm to live in.

I was happy with that equation.

Hollyisblue · 08/08/2023 14:18

Buying something on the open market with legally obtained money. Complying with all the laws. That is it.
From the objectors: Ethics or Envy?
I hope you enjoy your 2nd home.

BemusedBrenda · 08/08/2023 14:35

I live in a seaside village that sounds fairly similar - we have a pub, a shop, a tiny school, no gp surgery (closed quite recently)...and second homes / holiday lets are a big problem. They have driven up prices, pushed out locals, and we have a lot of properties that sit empty for at least half the year. Obviously you can do what you like with your money and justify it to yourself as you see fit, but in my view - yes, second home ownership is unethical.

Anotherhome · 08/08/2023 14:35

Thank you for the perspectives.
One thing is that it would very rarely be empty. We would use it a lot but we have huge families so that really wouldn't be an issue. I do think we would use local amenities, over the course of a year, at least as much as any regular family living there. We would be there much more in the winter months than the summer but have young friends who would use it in the summer.
I don't think there are large numbers of second home owners in the village. People mostly leave the village to work and come back in the evenings it seems. When we have chatted to people, although it "feels" like a holiday village, we are told that there aren't many second homes/air bnbs (although there are definitely some as we've used them). But any income in the village itself feels as though it's set up for summer tourists.
There hasn't been a school in the village for decades (it's a really really small village and the next door town is really close) - I think the last time there was a primary school was in the 1940s or 50s so I don't think that's due to second home ownership.
I get what you are saying but it doesn't feel that families are being priced out. The next town is cheaper for sure but the town the other way is more expensive. And the flats are not expensive at all (by standards of that county. We are not looking in Devon or Cornwall etc where I know prices are inflated by holiday lets) - I just don't think they are the sort of property a family would want with no outside space etc. Prices are falling and they are still not being bought.
We wouldn't buy a house purely because that would feel inappropriate when a family is more likely to want to buy that.
Thanks for all the thoughts - critical and otherwise. They all help.
(And for those saying "who cares?" - I guess I just want to make sure that I feel that I'm not doing the wrong thing by doing something I want to do!)

OP posts:
Echio · 08/08/2023 14:51

What a minefield!

There are some serious issues with home ownership in this country and second homes do not help, whichever way round you look at it. Practically, individual actions have minimal consequences. Much of it only transpires when added all together.

It's extremely easy for me to say you shouldn't do it because I don't have the means, if I did maybe I'd be thinking differently.

EleMar · 08/08/2023 15:17

Personally I think about the global impact one has on the world / environment / society. For example the OP might want to buy a second home, but are more 'ethical' in other aspects of their lives. One might have 2 large cars but don't fly abroad. Or 4 children (one child is the equivalent of an intercontinental flight abroad per month, if I remember correctly) but they are so involved in the community that they bring lots of joy to people around them. I think the key is being sensible and sensitive without removing every single joy of living!

Also, the fact that the OP are thinking about these points is great! We all know people that never think about anything deep and just suit themselves all the time....

TakenRoot · 08/08/2023 16:01

I come from a small village in a popular holiday area where the High St is almost all holiday cottages and second homes.

And the bank, one convenience store, the butcher and fishmonger have now closed down.

It’s complicated.

The cottages on the High St are Gorgeous, all listed, in a conservation area. But they are also tiny, awkward, with tricky stairs etc. Older people moved out of them to more mobility-friendly homes, and young people weren’t staying in the area.

Employment in many coastal / rural areas is lacking. Those who went to Uni tended not to come back, seeking knowledge based work in towns. Those in traditional farm / fishing work saw jobs evaporate. So they moved, or couldn’t afford to buy any housing, inflated by newcomers or not.

Now tourism / the visitor trade is crucial. Cafes and artisan bakeries, shops selling paintings and beach-hut chic tat. So now a new wave of resident newcomers, buying property, sitting in cafes working on lap tops, keeping the Deli busy etc.

But still everyone gives great speeches about second homes ruining the place… while raking in the tourist and newcomer pounds.

The problems that drive local young people away are a lot less simple than that.

Milosia · 08/08/2023 16:24

This reply has been deleted

Previously banned poster

Fordian · 08/08/2023 17:23

Echio · 08/08/2023 14:51

What a minefield!

There are some serious issues with home ownership in this country and second homes do not help, whichever way round you look at it. Practically, individual actions have minimal consequences. Much of it only transpires when added all together.

It's extremely easy for me to say you shouldn't do it because I don't have the means, if I did maybe I'd be thinking differently.

Well, we could afford to buy a second and third house, but I don't do it because I think it's unethical 🤷🏻‍♀️

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