Listed building flooring advice

[Alicorn0]

We’ve just bought a grade 2 Georgian house. It has original floor boards which need a bit of TLC. I’d sand and refinish (top layer of finish needs to come off) - but have found mixed advice about whether this is ok to do. Listed consent - if we just clean and refinish presumably this wouldn’t be necessary? The stairs are currently (badly) stained and I’ve seem nice pictures of painted stairs but if not already painted is is sacrilege to do so?

Any experience and advice would be helpful!

You might get some advice on these Facebook groups:

’Listed Buildings- Owners’ Group’

’I Love My Period House’

You need to check the listing to see if it covers the flooring.
I suspect you would be ok sanding and refinishing as it would probably be classed as maintenance.

The listing will cover everything within the curtilage of the house. It's the same for all listed buildings. Anything within that that could be of historic value should be maintained.

Repairing things like for like is fine, so gentle sanding (by hand) and refinishing will be fine. You can get away with painting if you can reverse it if you need to i.e. strip the paint off. I think painted stairs can be a bit slippery though?

Yeah that should be fine, you’re not changing anything just doing a repair

I’d expect you’ll be fine to do that unless, as a PP mentioned, the flooring is mentioned in the listing.

We taken up carpet, sanded and restrained floor boards. We also replaced those damaged beyond repair with like for like old salvaged boards.

Our house has painted stairs that the previous owners did, there wasn’t any permission for this and the solicitors didn’t flag as a concern when we bought it.

Listing does not always cover everything-I have come across houses where just the front of the building is listed. Or just the outside.
I think usually that's due to modern changes to the building prior to it being listed.
This is part of why it's not possible to just look things up online, the op will need to consult the listing at the very least and perhaps the local council.

Depends how long you want to live there.

No the Listing covers everything. Certain features may be referred to in the description, but everything else is still covered .

Routine care and maintenance does not normally need permission. I might ask about the stairs though. I know my local guidance is to not change the character of the house. Plus work should match the original character of the house. Painting the stairs probably doesn’t meet this. So why not ask what you can do? An unfitted carpet is temporary, so might this work?

This is just not true.
Op please get your info from your local authority.

I'm afraid it is. You are wrong and @Seeline is correct. Regardless of the listing description the whole property is covered by it.

Listed building owner here. PP is incorrect. A listing always covers ALL of the building and the curtilage, that's everything within its boundaries. Doesn't matter if only the front is mentioned on the listing, the whole building and curtilage is subject to listed building restraints.

Also a listed property owner. Listing covers everything.
Listing description just flags what the important parts are, but if you had an old 70s ugly gas bar fire you'd still need permission to change. You'd get it easily though.
Re the floor I think it's fine to sand and treat/paint. I have old panelling though which I know we couldn't change without permission.

For Georgian original floor boards with for example a modern shiny finish, you could sand it by hand but floor boards were in fact often stained originally.

By the way, brilliant white was a 20th century invention.
The listing covers the inside, outside and the curtilage. The description is not intended to be a fully comprehensive description.

Planner for over 30 years. It really is true 🙄

This is basic guidance from my LA. It’s quite clear on routine maintenance.

Thanks all. I’ll start as I need to go on and have a chat with with CO!

This is not true. I have machine sanded and restored several hundred grade 2 floors all over the UK. Hand sanding is impractical and impossible in almost all cases. Often I use a gentler hand machine method. I have never had an issue with a CO in over 30 years. CO's are only upset if you remove an existing floor without permission. Finishing it or covering it are both fine. Paint would be harder to remove than a reversible finish like shellac and wax. CO's only need to be consulted if the property is grade 2*, grade 1 or specifically lists the floor or interior as a protected item of special interest. You can also replace the floor if it is extensively damaged and beyond economic repair or dilapidated to the point of being dangerous or unfit for purpose. In this case you should discuss with your CO about suitable replacements as they may wish you to source like for like reclaimed timber of a similar age.

I was not saying that you can't machine sand them, I was explaining that you can't necessarily assume that it will be ok. Lots of people assume that listings only cover things in the description of the outside of the building so I was trying to explain that caution is best until you have worked out what is and isnt ok.

Thank you for adding your experience of working in listed buildings. It is very useful to know that gentle machine sanding is not something that causes an issue. Out of interest what sort of sander do you use and what sort of reversible finishes would be achievable by a diyer?

Well, I mainly work on grade 2 domestic properties but in several hundred jobs, over decades I never had an issue, ever, with a CO with regards to sanding floors dating back to the 15th century. I would be very surprised if you had an issue.

You are correct in that grade 2 listing covers the interior as well as the exterior and also that if you are unsure you should always check with your CO. I have replaced thousands of boards, almost all of them being reclaimed.

Dozens of listed floors are sanded, often badly! with cheap, industrial hire sanders every day. I have never heard of an issue even with unsympathatic work.

I use a range of the top professional machines all of which I own and you cannot hire.

It's a question of assessing the thickness of the timber, for boards I don't use a walk around sander if they are less than 16 or 17mm. For 15mm I only use hand machines. For less than 12 to 13mm I wouldn't sand without removing and strengthening the boards or fitting a subfloor underneath.

In addition, for floors earlier than around 1820, ie Georgian, I offer the gentler hand sanding method to preserve the dimensional topography.

After a certain age I would refuse to use a walk around sander. You cannot really belt sand a 17th century or earlier floor as they are too uneven.

You have to be very careful with parquet floors as some are thin 9mm overlay, often from 1890 to 1930 and some have already been sanded close to the tongues.

A reversible finish is simply one that never cures and can be softened and removed by it's original solvent. The main ones are shellac and wax which can be removed with meths, turpentine respectively, solvent stripper or hot washing soda. Oil finishes are not reversible but are pretty weak and can often be removed with similar methods.

A diyer should be able to apply most clear finishes if they use a brush on straight grained floors, herringbone can be more difficult.

Hardwax oils are probably the easiest to use for DIYers if you follow the instructions.