Planning Objection

[TheOutlaws]

Background: DParents live in a semi; their neighbours do not maintain their property. Neighbouring property is falling down; panes of glass coming out of the porch, windows are almost 100 years old and falling apart. In short, passers-by assume it’s derelict. Neighbours are fairly rich, too outing to name their profession but assuming no hardship, they just refuse to maintain their property.

Parents had a nice new porch installed last week. Planning dept visited them today to inform them of complaint, presumably from direct neighbours, that it’s too tall and requires planning permission. Planning guy was nice and took photos of neighbouring property in order to expedite dismissal of complaint with his boss.

My question is, is this a vexatious complaint and might my parents counter-complain in order to get these people to do something about the state of their house?

But you don’t know it was the neighbour, so it would be wrong to complain in a tit for tat way.

I don't think you can force someone to maintain their property. There might be something if it is causing damage to yours but not if it's just unsightly.

Your parents must have realised it required planning permission? There's nothing vexatious about any complaint to a planning department about a breach of planning permission.

Planning guy was nice and took photos of neighbouring property in order to expedite dismissal of complaint with his boss
I don't believe that 🙄

Planning don’t take photos of neighbours properties to get rid of vexatious complaints. I know as I was subject to one.

they will take one of three actions, enforcement Ie remove it/alter it. Retro permission, to regularise it. But it could be denied in the process or no further action. The decision they take is is it a breach or not. It’s irrelevant if it’s vexatious. Nearly every complaint is.

they are also not allowed to say who did it. Although you can usually tell/know depending on interactions.

the compliance officer should have given an indication of what he thinks next steps will be.

Nonsense. Plenty of people do it for reasons that are far from altruistic.

Is it too tall and does it require planning permission?

The state of the property nextdoor has no bearing at all on the porch issue and whether it not it needs planning permission. If it does then they will need to apply retrospectively.

If the house nextdoor is in a state then that might be more a matter for environmental health, so perhaps the planning chap would pass photos on to that team. Or he may just have been humouring your parents. I don't think there's anything that can be done to make them maintain the property to be honest.

Sorry also not maintaining a property is an individuals choice, unless it poses a hazard to the public, then I guess environmental or someone. Not planning. But they can let their property go derelict all they wish on their private land.

I meant from the planning department's perspective. They look into all complaints notified to them and make a decision as to whether there's an enforcement issue or not.
They don't make a value judgement and dismiss any claim as being "vexatious", whether it has merit or not. It's not a criminal court.

Yes that’s totally true. They don’t care if it’s vexatious or not. Simply is there a breach, yes or no. And if yes, then decide the course of action.

op, does it need planning?

The guy thinks it’s borderline. It’s a bit annoying that the company who built it didn’t check, or that my parents didn’t double-check, especially as they suspected the neighbours might complain (history of strange behaviour).

Three possible outcomes then I guess: 1. It’s fine no action needed; 2. It’s not fine, retrospective permission required; 3. It needs rebuilding lower (if in breach and planning not granted).

I don’t think my parents are interested in tit for tat but they’re worried that a derelict-ish property might impinge on theirs if bits start falling off. I guess this is the problem with living in a semi!

So what was all that nonsense about the guy using photographic evidence of next doors unkempt appearance to expedite dismissal of the objection?
It won't be borderline. They have very definite and very transparent criteria.
Your parents have clearly completely misunderstood, so they'll just have to wait for the verdict.

@HarrietJet

I know nothing about planning depts. and how decisions are made, I’m really sorry if I’ve made an error here, I’m just trying to give details of what happened when the planning guy came round. Like I said, I’m guessing three possible outcomes.

I hope it works out for them.

I’m afraid I agree, there is no such thing as borderline. It’s either compliant or it’s not. I think they have misunderstood.

I get thought it’s a shock when planning compliance turn up and you realise someone has reported you for breach of consent. Maybe they panicked or they are trying to downplay it so they don’t worry, or maybe they are just confused.. they will have the planning compliance officers details, they can email and ask, copying you in.

I would say it’s defo in breach as if it wasn’t they’d absolutely know that , but possibly it’s minor infringement so the council will decide if no further action, or if they wish to ask them to seek retro planning permission, or if they wish immediate enforcement. The compliance officer should have given an indication. It’s not a case of “I’ll ask my boss”. They are all lovely when they visit but they will do their job in line with planning requirements.

also if the porch is visible to many people Ie on a public road/street/avenue then it could be anyone who reported. So I’d not assume. They could be surprised.

Thanks @Janieforever that makes sense. The guy apparently needs to wait for final decision which apparently lies with someone else, who’s on holiday?

I’m 99% certain it’s the neighbours, my dad complained to them years ago that their fence was collapsing into my parents’ garden 🤣 they took umbridge at that stage, I think.

It was my neighbours too sigh.

hopefully it goes their way, with no further action, as the other ways are incredibly painful ..time consuming and costly.

for planning permission unless they have the ability , which it sounds like not, then it’s hiring a consultant, having location, site, sectional plans created, submitting application with descriptions and explaining why it’s in keeping with planning policy, waiting for neighbours to comment etc etc

enforcement is do it now and you’ve 30 days.

possibly it’s border line for any action, so he’s seeking opinion on that.

if you really want to know, then im general if it’s over 3 metres high from the ground or 3 sq metres in size it needs planning. What size is it? Do you have the dimensions? If the building is listed it’s a whole different animal.

I’ll ask - it’s definitely 3 metres-ish high but nowhere near in terms of square-footage. I think they assumed the builders would stick it up according to permitted development!

I could be wrong, but I don't think permitted development applies to the frontage. There are specific rules regarding altering the street scene.

@HarrietJet ah didn’t know that! Will pass it on.

I think it’s ok unless it’s a conservation area or listed building, but it’s complex.

op the measurements are external. So 3 metres max roof height.

The porch either needed planning permission or it didn't. In any area there are fixed rules about what does and what does not and the job of the planning dept is to make sure they're enforced where necessary. It makes no difference who complained or what state their property is in.

My neighbour maintains his house and garden in a way I think is horrid and unsightly, replacing original sash windows with cheap UPVC, killing every living thing in his garden with paving and plastic grass - but that's not a planning issue.

People can maintain their house in any way they like, unless it causes problems for adjoining properties in which case there may be a claim for environmental health dept (but note NOT the planning dept).

Porches are a separate class of pd, and are generally ok on the front, as that is where most porches are. They do have to be at least 2
m from the front boundary though.

The officer who came out will not give a decision on the spot, and will need agreement from a superior before being able to say whether it is pd, or if not what action is required. Whilst the basic requirements are clear, it is also necessary to check if eg a property is in a conservation area, whether pd rights have been removed etc. That will need research.

I suspect if it is only slightly over pd limits, they will just require a retrospective application. You wouldn't need a consultant for that. Basic householder application form, a site plan you can buy off the planning portal and some clear photos should be fine.