Which builder to choose for extension?

[Houseystuff876]

I'm planning on doing a single storey kitchen extension. I have narrowed the choice to two builders.

One is him his son and builder. Seems a nice guy and approachable and friendly. He wants me to pay his son a wage each week £700 then pay for the rest cash in hand. The build involves a fair amount of steel and windows, new WC, flooring etc. He will take it up to kitchen install. He doesn't have a website or reviews. Just word of mouth. He was recommended to me by my friends builder. But I don't know anyone whose personally used them.

The second builder is a big company that does residential builds and large scale building as well as small extensions. So a large company. They have a website, good reviews etc. Very practical person, but when we met he was talking about what not to do on the plans to bring it within budget. He was questioning the costings of the other builder (I guess because it's cash in hand it's so much cheaper than he can do as a large building business)

Going with cash in hand will make this 10k cheaper.

Any advice? To be honest I'm a bit clueless.

Both builders can begin by end of August and I need to start as was going to use friends builder but he pulled out for personal reasons.

Hmmm. 10k less is very tempting but if all you've got to go on for the first guy is one of his builder mates another builders recommendation I'd want more before I committed.
The cash in hand means he's dodging tax so can do it cheaper, not unusual and doesn't mean he can't put some bricks together etc.
But for something as important as this you want to know his work... First guy should be able to give you some past customers examples, if he can't do that he's a complete unknown quantity and I'd be super wary just for that reason because omg tradespeople vary SO much in quality, I really wouldn't dive into a big project with a total unknown.
The fact he can start so quickly is unusual for a 2 man outfit good builder (less so the big firm because they'll have the size to turn things around quickly).
So it's not red flags but the absence of green flags is the issue.

If the first guy is doing it cash in hand to avoid tax that will a problem if there is any building defect or problem w building regs as you may not have the paperwork (contract/receipts etc) to prove the contract.

The first builder has given me pictures of an extension he's just done and the owners number to call for a review. It's a good sign but is just one person.

The second builder seems reliable, very 'straight' but will be very focused on getting the job done efficiently to make most profit. I will need to scale back to afford this option. It's all costing so much ATM so the budget is being pushed.

For the second builder I will need to scale back to go for him. So the design elements will be cheap- kitchen/ skylights/ flooring/ maybe not have all steel I would have liked and scale back plans a bit.

Ah. Ok.
Call and speak to the customer he's done an extension for asap.

Ask what he was like to deal with.
Was the work to the standard they expected.
Were there any problems (often are in any build) and if so how were they dealt with
Would they use him again/recommend him and why

Try to get a sense of if this person knows what they're talking about (it would be great if you called them and if they were lovely and you were charming maybe they'd even let you go and chat in person and see the project, so much more information you can get that way than over the phone).
For instance, I've built my own house so I know what I'm looking at. I went to my bosses house one day who was having an extension done, he was pleased with his builders but I could see some of their work was shoddy (though not all of it, the joinery was good), my boss didn't know what he was looking at so didn't see this and was thrilled cos it was all starting to look lovely as the cladding was going on (aesthetically). I didn't have the heart to tell him the insulation was poorly installed and the performance gap was going to be massive.

Ask him if he had any other customers like that you can speak to, it would be nice to have more than one.

Once you've done that you might have a clear picture, at the moment you're just missing vital information.
Also for builder A you want to know what insurance he's got, what guarantees he'll give you which should be backed by insurance, (for any builder but I'm assuming big firm has this), is he a member of any builders guild or similar, is he doing the electrics and plumbing himself if so is he registered properly for both for builders regs sign off...

Is builder A giving you fixed price then? If not you may go over budget if he doesn't control the costs well and end up here anyway... Ask previous customer/s if it came in on budget.

You need a contract. Do not use a builder without one. A JCT Homeowners will be sufficient. In that, there is a payment schedule which shows you pay x amount when you get to DPC, x amount when you get to wall plate, x amount when the roof goes on etc. there is also a programme with timescales included so you know exactly what will be happening, week by week with payment dates included. BUT you don’t pay until the relevant stage of works is completed, so you can have confidence that the job won’t drag on and on. This contract will also give you a defects liability period of usually 12 months and you will be covered for any major structural failings for 12 years. I wouldn’t go anywhere near paying cash - he could literally take it to the bookies and lose the lot and you would have no recourse. And, merchants don’t take cash?? So why does he need cash?
Without a contract you will also be voiding your home insurance. If your house falls down you will have no cover.
You can minimise and fix costs with the bigger contractor by finalising ALL decisions now, down to wall colours, door furniture, skirting etc. Get every single element priced, then, unless you change your mind, the cost won’t change. And never pay any money up front.

Have you got detailed quotes outlining exactly what is included? That way you can compare like with like, or is it just a "extension completed as plan for £xx" .

The second builder will be vat registered so you will be paying vat on the labour as well as the materials.

A lot of smaller builders stay under the vat threshold by asking customers to pay subcontractors directly or by paying directly for materials. This keeps them competitive as they don't have to charge vat on the labour.

I suggest that you keep a 30% contingency whichever option you go for

30% sounds like a lot. I thought it was generally 10-15% contingency?

Builder A gave me a quote but not details. Just that would be the overall cost. He doesn't have structural plans but knows what walls there are to remove.

He rang me 20 minutes after visiting the house

Builders merchants do take cash , well the ones i use do. Ive never heard anyone say they dont ?

I had a quote from a builder A type last year when I did my extension. I went with builder B. Both were builders I know someone has used was recommended. I went with builder B because of the more detailed quote of payment schedule and what was included. Builder A was more vague and if you look into details, you can see the gap. Like windows, tiles, that kind of thing.

You need to a very clear list of what’s included and when you are paying.

imo this is a bad sign, particularly as you’re talking about removing walls, steels, skylights etc. I would be very wary of someone who priced out a job that quickly without structural plans/specifics, given the cost of materials is moving so much at the minute.

Compiling a detailed quote is a lot of work and not doing so is a way of keeping costs down.

But there are risks with that, some if those risks are on the builder (if they provide a fixed price for the job and get it wrong they lose out), if they under quote they might try to cut corners. So the less detail, the less certainty you have.
Maybe you are comfortable with that level of risk, maybe you're not.

No decent builder would quote without seeing the building regs drawings and specifications. He may be brilliant but reality is you have nothing in writing and no spec if what he will deliver which was all in our tender document when we did this

We are just doing a building notice not building regs drawings. That was recommended by my architect.

Building regs notice just means you get inspected at incremental stages and it's s good way of doing things.
But you'd still have specification drawings which the builder will want to see. If you don't have those you're relying on verbal communication too guide him which may it may not go well and you have no come back if it doesn't.

I have drawings from the architect including dimensions for doors.

Then I'm organising structural engineer plans for steel.

Are specification drawings different from this?

We had drawings done for the planning. They were then added to my the engineer and architect for building regs and quotations. None of the builders that tendered on my job would quote without them as they can make a massive difference to coatings especially where there is any structural work

Specification drawings give the details of how something is expected to fit together, so stuff like an explosion drawing of a junction detail which specifies fixing, thickness etc etc. It's like the difference between an area map and a close up road route. If builders has those he can't make it up as he goes along.
Not everyone uses them though, friends how much leeway you're willing to give for him to do things 'his way'

I have decided to get construction drawings. My architect thought they weren't necessary as a good builder can just build it. But my budget is tight so I think it is worth spending the cost of drawings now to be more sure of the build costs.

I hope I'm not throwing money to the wind as it's a tight budget.

I have been advised by architect and a builder to not go for building regs approval and just do a building notice then on site checks.

Has anyone done this? The benefit would be not having to wait 5 weeks. The build was meant to start mid August but since my builder pulled out It's all bring delayed massively.

A building notice is more intended for what your project sounds like. The problem you have is (and underpinning it) is where is the agreement (contract) around the specification. The specification of what is done, especially structural steels can massively change the cost. For eg, our extension involved steels, and re drilling out the foundations to replaced them with reinforced footings. The builder (and to be fair others) protested it was massively over specced but fortunately that is what was tendered for as part of the process and engineers drawings. Having seen it, builder prob direct but I know it will never move!

Cash in hand is tempting, especially after building costs have soared. However, we had extremely detailed specifications which literally went down to the type and model of ceiling downlighters. Fortunately our build went well, but where is your come back if it doesn't. No contract and no spec....the builder has you over a barrel !!