Why are there no ‘Project Properties’ anymore?

[wetwinnie]

Is it me, or does it seem like every project house has already been snapped up and done up?

We were looking for a renovation project anywhere in the countryside but commutable within an hour or so on the train to London, and there is nothing. Only a few 70s or 80s builds on estates. What is available is hugely overpriced, and not worth the time. We had quotes in for one property (and we would do a lot) and it came out £100k more expensive than buying the finished deal!

Some people like flipping houses and there's enough people out there who want to move into a ready-made beige/grey/greige home that it's worth people doing it. There's also been a boom in people buying and renovating properties as buy to let investments.

Lots on auctions. Raising finance tricky though depending on condition.

We're in Devon, and I simply don't understand why anyone would buy any of the project houses on offer. Once you've done the maths on them, the asking prices are insane. They must just be hoping that someone comes along who doesn't have a clue how much it costs to do everything.

It’s insane isn’t it? We even considered buying a place near my parents in Dorset but properties which were 500k maybe 5-6 years ago, are now asking 1 mil plus

Clueless people watching homes under the hammer and greedy sellers has basically pushed the prices beyond anything sensible.

The cost of mortgages will also bite. Many of these "renovations" are simply "bung down some laminate and paint the walls". In a market where mortgages are cheap there are plenty of people out there who used to be able to afford to spend stupid money on low cost cosmetic improvements, but now mortgages are more expensive these people are thinned out and forced to look for real value by buying their own doer-uppers.

Couple that with the difficulty/expense of getting trades and the whole idea becomes unviable.

Quite the opposite on your first point, housing stock is overly dated and “in need of modernisation” in my opinion. Not rare to see houses in London in the 1.5m to 3m range with a standalone cooking unit and worktop in the kitchen 4 decades old. Agreed on pricing often not reflecting the upgrade required to bring it to the 21st century, house renovations in that part of the country counts in multiples of 100’s thousands.

I see a fair few of what I assume are probate houses come on the market. They're always priced far too high. Unless you're in trades or someone with good connections you'd not be making any money on it.

It's only worth doing if you've got deep pockets and particularly love the house/plot.

It seems to only be worth it if you are a builder or have family/friends who do it for mates rates.

We bought a house and did a full renovation to a medium spec. It’s worth what we paid plus the renovation costs. We intend to stay long term so it doesn’t bother us but there is no money to be made if paying commercial rates for trades.

It's no longer a niche thing. I have a friend who has been taking on projects every 5-6 years for the last 30 plus years mainly in and around London, she genuinely loves doing the work.

She's stopped now, Sellers are too greedy they think they are entitled to a share of the end profits without understanding the costs or time involved. Buyers are too plentiful, inspired by TV, social media, stories of people making $$$ by doing up property.

My friend bought a horse instead, similarly a money pit and takes up huge amount of time 🐴

In Devon, you'll see a project house for, say, £150k off the cost of a "done" one. But the cost of doing it up will be £250k. It's bonkers.

You’re looking for a bit of a unicorn property along with loads of other buyers, so many of them will get snapped up before they come on the open market, either by people who have cosied up to the agents, or developers with an ongoing relationship with local agents

But there are many delusional sellers who think their houses are worth far more than they are to buyers looking to move away from London.

In the bit of Dorset where we have friends and family, there are houses that have been on the market for over a year, which say ‘will suit buyers looking to relocate from London’ in the sales listing, but are £250k+ overpriced and the vendors are still clinging onto the idea that someone with more money than sense will come along and pay that for it

They don’t seem to grasp that London buyers with a big budget have the money because they are wise about property, not because they are too dumb to know what something is worth

I have an involvement in property renovation, and all the best deals never get onto the open market

@tenbob - I think that is the case now but maybe not in the past. I live in a town outside London but commutable to central London within 30mins, however due to very high train fares to London, property is not too bad for the SE. About 10yrs ago we had a bit of an influx of London buyers paying over the odds for massive houses. Now a lot of them are trying to sell for a million plus more than they paid but there are no takers as locals know they are overpriced and Londoners have wised up. They just sit on the market for ages but sellers are unrealistic.

As someone else mentioned. Your looking in the wrong place. They mostly go by auction. If you look on RM all you will find is occasionally overpriced stuff that will cost more to do than its finished value. Plenty of genuine do er uppers at auction and long as you have the cash.

Seem to be quite a few local to us, we have bought two in two years, one was via auction.

I’d say there are plenty but they are priced the same or higher than finished ones.
Many people still think the market is the same as summer 22.

Lots of probate houses surely, my DMs was one

@User538765 - yes but they are often priced very highly. Probably a mixture of sentimental value and beneficiaries wanting as much as possible as inheritance as they have no onward sale.

We ended up buying our house for 75% of the original price it was up for. This was back in 2018 when the market was much better. The house needed completely gutting and modernising. It didn’t even have central heating. It had sat around at the higher price for about 12 months after probate was granted due to beneficiaries wanting their slice of the pie to be as big as possible. The estate agent begged us to put in an offer and even then it took forever for them to agree and they tried to negotiate to the asking price again near exchange. In our case it was one particularly greedy beneficiary who was then shocked and vocally displeased that we didn’t move straight in to a damp house with no heating in the middle of winter and instead renovated it. Weird.

I just priced it at the average market value that the estate agents valued it at, it sold within a couple of days and we ended up accepting about £10k less than marketed at.

To be fair, you're limiting yourselves a lot with countryside around an hour from London. Is that for work (assuming so as you say commutable) regularly or is it an occasional journey?

Well done, I was just explaining why probate houses are often not cheaper when they often need lots of work.

Having tried to buy a couple of 'doer uppers' recently - seems that so many folk want to do up a house having watched all the TV programmes and are not always honest about how much a proper renovation costs.
I spoke with one couple who outbid me on a property (happened to be two doors up from some relatives). They had budgeted £30k for new kitchen, bathroom and redecorate. They had not realised until the day they had a tradesperson round after they had bought it it needed a rewire, new heating/boiler, two new windows, new roof, insulating properly....

Ha ha ha. You are like the people who moan about busy shops/traffic jams - "Who are all these other people doing exactly what I want to do?"!

In my area I think there has been a mass cull of old people, because all of a sudden there are A LOT of renovation properties. Previously these houses would have been snapped up (excellent school catchment) but no one is buying them. The only houses going quickly are the properties that have already been done up. It seems no one wants the work / the cost of renovating wouldn't be viable. It also shocks me how so many elderly people have been living, they have literally been living in squalor. It's terrible.

This. Developers often know about these coming on the market before anyone else and they never make it to RM.