People who happily take on refurbishment properties - come hither and tell me where to start

[HangerLaneGyratorySystem]

I've been to see a Victorian terrace, been empty maybe a year, I love it. I thought get everything painted over, new flooring, new bathroom, maybe could live with kitchen, do the rest as I go along. Now I've seen it there's so much more to do; I'm not sure its even safe to move in at all (regardless of price). Might need a re-wire, new CH system, lots of plastering, might be asbestos (some dodgy shit in the loft), water in cellar, conservatory might need demolishing and so on. I even suspect a supporting wall has been removed upstairs. On the plus side windows look good, roof sound and no damp. However, the agent (initially nicey nice) is now insisting its all cosmetic and treating me like some confused nanna. I feel like I'm being gaslit. A previous buyer had a survey done then pulled out, agent is stating this is pure coincidence and that had there been any issues in the survey they would have had to be informed in order to notify the vendor (who I presume is the previous elderly occupier's family).

When you see a place like this, what are you looking for? What tells you whether or not to take a punt? Or an informed decision? Am I meant to get a builder round to look at it at this stage? Would I need to pay them for that? Could I buy a copy of the survey from the previous buyer? What should I do first?

A previous buyer had a survey done then pulled out, agent is stating this is pure coincidence and that had there been any issues in the survey they would have had to be informed in order to notify the vendor

If she's so insistent it's all cosmetic, she won't have any issues sharing the survey with you, will she?

Assuming it's London per your username, I reckon you need to add 150k.

The supporting wall removal (if true) is very worrying.

She said she didn't have the survey as it was never sent to them and she doesn't want to contact the previous buyer. But he was offered on a mortgage on it, so surely it can't be that bad. She says.

The purchase price is c £250k and I'd have maybe £20k to start the work. So not in London (I just like the name - years ago I was StaplesCorner!)

I suppose deep down, for my budget, I want to believe its all cosmetic.

and she doesn't want to contact the previous buyer.

Aaaaand there's your red flag.

But he was offered on a mortgage on it, so surely it can't be that bad.

I'm sure it's not. But it still needs hundreds of thousands of pounds of work. Maybe he had that kind of cash floating around.

Estate agent is having a laugh at your expense. Their job is to sell the house for as much money as possible. Not your friend.

Follow standard house buying procedure. You get a survey done at your own expense. Choice of how detailed you want it. Obviously more detailed is better for Victorian and/or clear refurb needed.

Be clear about how much work you will do yourself vs pay to get done. Cost in your time to do or manage, tools, materials.

Refurb is a lifestyle, you will be living there while doing up. People often think oh I'll carry on as normal and do a bit of reno as I go. It will take years. You can cut those years down by making your life fit around the refurb. Not much fun by month 8 when it's looking worse than before due to the amount of half finished work...

Cash assets to pay for the work - how much have you got? Everything will cost more than you think. Everything will take much longer too.

How long do you want to live there for? Plan your MVP accordingly. Don't fall into the bottomless pit trap, old houses have little jobs everywhere you look..

@MrsElsa I'm 60. It would be the last house I ever buy.

Unless it really is all cosmetic then I can't really afford it. What I was hoping is that I could get a look at the previous survey and then know if was even worth considering from the get go. No wonder the agent was getting confused nanna vibes from me!

Our current house had 3 people pull out before we bought it , no idea why and didn’t ask. It’s a complete modernisation (70’s ) No survey , cash purchase, sometimes op you just know it’s the right house and go for it 🙂 Life’s a rollercoaster and all that 🥳😭.

5 years years later and never found any serious problems 👍

@Diyextension when you looked at it did it look terrible, worse than it was maybe?

Well, your re-wiring and re-plastering after re-wiring is your 20k float gone immediately. Victorian homes are riddled with problems that you uncover as soon as you scratch under the surface. I am especially suspicious of this one because it's been empty for a year. I don't think it's normal for a nice Victorian house to be empty for so long; the good room sizes are in high demand (although I guess a bit less so these days after crippling energy bills in the last few years).

Really, if you want to spend all your retirement money on it because it's beautiful, go for it. If you think it would be a labour of love and likely to be worth it, take a chance.

Otherwise, I'd be absolutely bloody minded and tell the agent that you're not even prepared to send a builder round for quotes until she 'manages to track down' a copy of the survey to be sent to you. You could even offer to pay them whatever they paid for it. If they refuse, they either had a really bad time with the seller, or the agent is lying because the survey is so bad.

I don’t think it’s usual for people to give their survey to other potential buyers. The potential buyer before you will have spent a fair amount of money (a few hundred?) on that survey, so they probably wouldn’t think it was fair to give it away for free - unless you were a friend or something.

Oh sorry I see you were thinking of buying the survey off the other potential buyer - in which case you may as well commission your own one? Then you can chat it through with the surveyor and you will know it is up to date.

@Diymesss and @KievLoverTwo - I offered to buy the survey. But agent refused to pass on the message. (I would expect to pay maybe 50% of what the previous buyer spent on it, otherwise he's lost that money completely so I think he might be pleased to receive such an offer? Maybe?)

It helps to have a FIL like mine who was a builder... 😁
From your description it doesn't sound cosmetic.
Upstairs walls don't usually support anything much, unless the house is more than 2 stories. Do the ceilings sag?
The main thing that would concern me is the water in the cellar - that could indicate a problem that would affect the whole structure of the house.
You could be cheeky and knock on the neighbour's doors and ask what they've had to have done and what issues they have had.

sorry cross post. I dont think you can commission a survey till you had an offer accepted - chicken and egg?

*storeys

No saggy ceilings at all @granstable - I've got loads of front I can ask the neighbours, in fact I think it would be essential!

Exactly.

Well, I had an offer and refused to pass my survey on (done a month prior), but that's because the vendors were such a-holes that I would rather lose £500 than help them.

Mostly I imagine they'd be pleased to have the money offered to them.

@HangerLaneGyratorySystem I see - can’t help feeling it’s a bad sign if the agent won’t help you and pass the message on, maybe they are worried about what you will find out! That and being on for a year with no sale sounds a bit dodgy.

The agent sounds really annoying, unless they are a surveyor they’re not in a position to tell you it’s all cosmetic. Don’t trust them!

Get a full survey done. Anything structural will show up.

Assuming no damp. If there is get this done first. In general get any electrics done next. Any new beams need to go in next. Floors next but you may need to replace a joist under the floor boards before any rotten floorboards. Rip off any old wallpaper and look at the condition of walls underneath. You might need plaster patches or skimming over. Then look at the skirting boards and doors. Central heating and boiler. Then painting/wallpapering. Flooring. Then kitchen or bathroom then paint/tile.

That's the order I do things and I've renovated 3 wrecks now with DH.

Loft lagging in, then energy efficient light bulbs.

It sounds dodgy as hell, but if you love it and want a big project to finish on i say go with your heart because thats what lifes about.

Im currently doing up a period property i bought without a survey (didnt really need someone else to tell me its old and crap!) and no regrets BUT, we are doing the work ourselves which saves a packet and we're prepared for big expenses like roofs needing doing etc etc.

It WILL cost double what you expect and forget timings 😁

Don't do it. This is a very expensive time to be doing renovations especially if you haven't done one before.

Even with a full survey, there will be issues that are not visible without taking up floors/ ceilings etc and if a property hasnt been well maintained for a while then there is likely to be at least one hidden random thing that you aren't expecting.

The £20,000 could easily be eaten up just making the building weatherproof.

I think with 20k behind you I wouldn’t touch it. Materials are generally still increasing. A new door on order is £250 more than the same ordered autumn. Our plumber was quick to order new boiler as he is expecting Worcester Bosch to increase costs by 10-15% again this month.

Basically, you either need to know what you're looking at or know/pay someone who does (surveyor, builder, electrician etc).

As a layman you can get a pretty good idea about things by watching house renovation videos on YouTube. It's basically equilavent to an apprenticeship :D and fsr more useful than reading textbooks on construction defects.

Victorian properties can be huge money pits. I've seen a survey for a Victorian property that needed the roof replacing, problems with drains causing a wall to bow, and other structural issues.

I'd always get a survey done on any property - compared to the price of the house it's worth doing.