3 bed flat in london, 700k ?

[flate]

Where might I look for a good sized 3 bed flat in London (3 dc) for 700k absolute max, with decent state schools?

Would like to be somewhere with an urban london, but villagey feel (hence the focus on flats). Have a strong preference for purpose built flats rather than house conversions - either period or new. I've mostly lived in west london when I was younger, but never with family.

Atm considering Kilburn?

And I suggested Pimlico which is a mixed comprehensive that quite a few of the Oval children go to.

Yes its why we are only looking at bigger flats in London. As our budget is not very big even in the Home Counties and there would be season ticket fares to pay as well (even 2-3 times a week adds up and is often not that much cheaper than going in FT). Service charges would be much cheaper.

I am looking at Muswell Hill, Crouch End, East Finchley. All have good state schools. I was also looking at Pinner but its a bit far out and everyone has told me its a bad idea to move there if you don't drive. They are all in north london as DH grew up in north london and doesn't like south london.

So it seems a bit counter-productive to be too far out, esp when budget would only stretch to a terrace cottage in the suburbs anyway...(might be different if could afford a big four bed semi). But as prices are, might as well be near the city and in a flat I think.

Tbf there are plenty of areas in z3/4 where 700k would get you a decent size house.

Sweet Jesus. When I think what you could get for £700k round here (up north). You'd be looking at a 5 or 6 bed house with half an acre of gardens, maybe stables and possibly a outdoor pool for that money. This country is mad!

@MadameameBeans

Completely, but its very difficult to get stable jobs in our field, let alone outside London unfortunately

Oh yes, sorry I didn't mean I thought you were mad. I was just lamenting how the country has got into a state where a three bedroom semi in a nice bit of the north can be £220k but a good three bed flat in London can be £700k. Exasperated by the world not by your place in it! :). Good luck with the search.

Tbh there are parts of London where you can get a house for £700k. You can even get a house for £500k.. but it's a different demographic. The schools aren't even necessarily bad in terms of results , in fact some of them perform quite well but they tend to come from the same community.

London is a world city and has to be judged next to cities like HK, Singapore, new York, Munich etc. Next to those cities London is quite cheap for housing.. but British salaries are overall quite low except in select industries (and even those are underpaid compared to their American counterparts). Salaried income also attracts high taxes.

No it's not mad that a 250sqm 3 bed, period, mansion flat in Zone 1/2 in London costs the same as a mansion and acreage up north.

London has all the jobs. The increased salaries. The desire to live there from millions of people. It's a word class capital city mentioned in the same breath as New York, Paris. If you want to do it you can do it in London. If you want to get it you can get it in London. You can literally do everything you want there.

Not sure one can say the same about a village outside of Darlington.

Also who the hell wants a mansion (chilly and expensive to heat with too many windows) and acreage (lots of work, a twelvety million pounds to fence).

No it's not mad that a 250sqm 3 bed, period, mansion flat in Zone 1/2 in London costs the same as a mansion and acreage up north

I think it's mad & I say this as a born & raised Londoner. Many people would be better off getting a job elsewhere & living elsewhere as they could often have more disposable income. London is a great city but prices are distorted now & they weren't always so high.

I had a maisonette which I sold a few yrs ago, I personally wouldn't spend 700k on one particularly now unless I was happy to stay in a maisonette for a long time. Lots of flats have stagnated in prices & Ive seen lots sold for the same or not much more of people had only bought them in the last few yrs.

if not of.

DH grew up in London in the 1990s and I think London was quite a different place. Large swathes of z2 were council housing and many of the people who bought there were first gen immigrants who had less money.. finance was deregulated in the 1980s and then we had the tech revolution and of course London schools improved under blair so the incomes of the top 10% grew. And unlike yesteryear, many of them are not British or are second gen immigrant and so they are happy to stay in London rather than move to the home counties. Plus the birth rate overall in the country is decreasing so childless professionals are more likely to stay in the city longer anyway..

What you see in London would happen slowly in the rest of the country, just at a slower rate. Look at this housing crisis now, it's not just Londoners who are spending 50% of their income on rent. It happens in the SW too. And probably in ten years time in the north. The key issue is inequality and of course this is more stark in London. What is expensive to you isn't expensive to a lot of people. I think London is humbling in a way because you realize that you are a small fish in a big pond but it's better you realize that early on than later when inflation/income inequality catch up with you.

Rich people are mobile and so is their purchasing power. At least in London , there are more opportunities to increase your income, our household income has increased 60% in the past year simply by switching jobs !

@rosetintedmemories2023 I'm not sure what your reply to me is about? I'm a 2nd gen immigrant myself. I don't personally think a 700k flat in London is a great investment in this economic climate but that doesn't mean that no one should buy one, it just depends what you want out of it & many do want their properties to go up in value. Also it's not so binary as a 700k flat in z2 vs home counties.

At least in London , there are more opportunities to increase your income, our household income has increased 60% in the past year simply by switching jobs !

Again i've not said anything contrary to this. Plenty of people earn well, that doesn't mean they want to spend it servicing debt.

And salaries for most even in London aren't that great imo as many have been impacted by stagnation.

Hi OP, I live in SE London and a secondary school teacher. Schools can change dramatically in character both for good and bad. In my three decades of experience I have seen children excel in poor schools and others have a dreadful time in good schools. Home and parenting counts for so much.
This is not the view of many parents I know. Many staff i work with send their own children or grandchildren to our school. But many parents even in our catchment area would not consider us!
Personally I would pick the area you want then find a school.

London z1/2 flats have fallen 24% in real terms in the past 5 years so we may actually be nearing the bottom (though I agree it has some way more to go ) and these things usually happen in cycles. My friend at the communities, levelling up ministry says that they are still working on plans to reform leasehold as they expect a labour government would want to continue that either way even if the Tories don't want to..

London property is actually very tax efficient compared to other countries. No capital gains and very low council tax, stamp duty is a one off. I have lived in 3 capital cities and London is the most affordable when you consider salary Vis a vis private property. Compare it with my a 10k per annum property tax bill in San Francisco for a 2 bed 1 million townhouse! I once worked out with my friend in Leeds who would pay the same in council tax as someone with a 1 million pound flat in the borough of Westminster despite his property being 8% of that value literally.

It would take the UK government a long time to reform the council tax system but as for the alternative investments like pensions, they are already drawing up plans to have our private pension funds fund startups. As they are rapidly running out of government money to give to their friends so I guess the next target is private pension funds. On the other hand they are talking of axeing inheritance tax and that would probably be quite hard for labour to reimplement (given how popular it is) so you probably don't even have to sell your house to avoid paying it even if it's in excess of a million.

* London z1/2 flats have fallen 24% in real terms in the past 5 years so we may actually be nearing the bottom (though I agree it has some way more to go ) and these things usually happen in cycles.*

I'm less convinced about the cycles since post 08 increases were to do with QE & low rates and we didn't recover in wage or productivity terms. Plus ageing population issue to deal with.

London property is actually very tax efficient compared to other countries. No capital gains and very low council tax, stamp duty is a one off

I think this might be an area that changes though as the country needs to raise taxes from somewhere. Also you're talking about a different market, even in London the average property isn't 1m plus I don't think we've seen the true fall out of the rate rises in terms of economic impact

and don't forget the stealth tax of freezing income bands, that's big considering inflation.

I mean 54k now is equivalent to 30k in 2000, good knows what it will be like in 2025.

And so much recent price growth as been driven by large equity gains. If your flat now doesn't increase by 200k in 2 yrs, it's a lot of salaries increases to bridge that gap.

I agree I don't think a flat is a great investment - if I wanted a great investment I would get a doer upper terrace further out. But I don't want to! I just want a nice flat as a forever home in a nice central area and enjoy life.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But going back to original point you need to choose the schools first really.

@Notgoodatpoetrybutgreatatlit we live in Forest Hill and are permanently debating staying or leaving. Not loving the prospect of sending my kid to a failing school.

@flate- I agree with your thinking. Time is far more precious than money. Spending quality time with DC when they still want to, not commuting too far etc - soaking in the buzz and existence and culture. Meeting lots of different people, being around lots of different people with differing outlooks - it is all very valuable.

I live around that area I'd say if you can afford it then go for it. You can get to any part of London from E&C. It's been regenerated in the last 5+ years so it is probably a whole lot more expensive to live in but I would suggest to anyone who wants to live around central

This is a great way to illustrate my point about schools. Geoffrey Chaucer school at Elephant was considered dreadful by all. It is now an Ark school and is a good school. Highly organised and well resourced. I'm not by any means claiming it doesn't have faults!
There are sister schools at Walworth and in Camberwell as well. This whole area used to have very poor secondary schools and now has a whole group of strong ones.