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Twiglets1 · 09/07/2023 16:22

Xenia · 09/07/2023 16:13

In 1900 I tihnk 90% of people rented and that was from private landlords and plenty led happy lives. You certainly don't need to own a property to be happy, but people do prefer the relative stability of it and when is the right time to buy will vary. My view is ifyou can afford it buy before you breed with 2 full time salaries which is what my parents did - they put children off for about 8 years until they could buy) , I did, etc

Buy Before you Breed - that could be the new slogan for the Nationwide

SomewhereInTheMIdlands · 09/07/2023 23:12

3BSHKATS · 07/07/2023 20:50

Wimbledon was packed today. Perhaps more people are unaffected than mn bargains for

The rich are always rich, no matter how the poor to middling always fairing.

PerfectYear321 · 10/07/2023 01:21

Twiglets1 · 09/07/2023 16:22

Buy Before you Breed - that could be the new slogan for the Nationwide

Catchy. Maybe the Tories are reading this thread and will use it in their GE campaign

C4tastrophe · 11/07/2023 12:06

Apparently the average 2 year fix is now 6.66%

Someone start a new 7% interest rates thread.

Cocotrain · 11/07/2023 12:11

I’ve suggested my DH speak to his sister now - their fixed rate runs out October 2024 and they are not very good with finances so I’m worried they are going to get a shock if they don’t start planning now. They barely make ends meet now as she works very very part time due to MH issues so god only knows what’s going to happen come end next year

GasPanic · 11/07/2023 12:31

2Y and 5Y gilt prices now well above the Truss peak.

I was a bit surprised that the wage inflation data didn't push them higher, but maybe it has already been priced in.

Guess it is a wait until 17th now for the CPI data.

userxx · 11/07/2023 12:51

Someone start a new 7% interest rates thread

Yeah, I can see it happening.

squirrelsinyourarmchair · 11/07/2023 21:01

maryso · 09/07/2023 11:39

We hardly if ever hear from the typically un-smug people who saw it coming from day 1 and weathered the ridicule from typically smug chancers for not jumping onto a temporary free money bandwagon. A colleague refused to buy a replacement family home at overinflated prices, and rented for eleven years raising their lovely well-adjusted children in (shock horror) rented homes. Despite "pouring more than twice the price of two average UK houses down the drain" in rent, as well as subsidising all these "clever" borrowers through negative rates, they exchanged this week on a family home that was priced realistically. They saved over three times what they spent on eleven years' rent in 2022's fantasy house money and paid what they should have paid in 2008 prices. Their children have always had a good home, so no change there. Another great outcome is they've reduced their subsidy to borrowers substantially.

Rate rises don't matter for the majority of home borrowers who can service their contractual obligations. Also there still is time to reduce outgoings while rates are still below inflation. No house will fail to sell if priced correctly. Fear of under-pricing in an open market is just unfounded fear. The obsession with buying especially for lower priced homes makes for sticky price falls and meteoric rises. That combined with hyperbole that negative rates were the "new normal" will always find those who choose to hand over their own confidence in the greedy pursuit of fantasy.

My guess is:

a) the “colleague” is actually you
b) you are not un-smug

😁

BunnyBettChetwynd · 11/07/2023 22:13

A colleague refused to buy a replacement family home at overinflated prices, and rented for eleven years raising their lovely well-adjusted children in (shock horror) rented homes. Despite "pouring more than twice the price of two average UK houses down the drain" in rent, as well as subsidising all these "clever" borrowers through negative rates, they exchanged this week on a family home that was priced realistically. They saved over three times what they spent on eleven years' rent in 2022's fantasy house money and paid what they should have paid in 2008 prices.

I just can't understand this. So they foresaw the market changes 11 years in advance? They spent twice the price of two average UK houses on rent? Then, 11 years later, when the average UK house price has risen by £100,000 they saved six times this average UK house price and bought a house for what they should have paid in 2008.

All the while subsidising borrowers??

Does anyone understand how this works or what figures would have to be involved to make it work?

Twiglets1 · 11/07/2023 22:18

BunnyBettChetwynd · 11/07/2023 22:13

A colleague refused to buy a replacement family home at overinflated prices, and rented for eleven years raising their lovely well-adjusted children in (shock horror) rented homes. Despite "pouring more than twice the price of two average UK houses down the drain" in rent, as well as subsidising all these "clever" borrowers through negative rates, they exchanged this week on a family home that was priced realistically. They saved over three times what they spent on eleven years' rent in 2022's fantasy house money and paid what they should have paid in 2008 prices.

I just can't understand this. So they foresaw the market changes 11 years in advance? They spent twice the price of two average UK houses on rent? Then, 11 years later, when the average UK house price has risen by £100,000 they saved six times this average UK house price and bought a house for what they should have paid in 2008.

All the while subsidising borrowers??

Does anyone understand how this works or what figures would have to be involved to make it work?

I'm baffled by it

noglow · 11/07/2023 22:28

BunnyBettChetwynd · 11/07/2023 22:13

A colleague refused to buy a replacement family home at overinflated prices, and rented for eleven years raising their lovely well-adjusted children in (shock horror) rented homes. Despite "pouring more than twice the price of two average UK houses down the drain" in rent, as well as subsidising all these "clever" borrowers through negative rates, they exchanged this week on a family home that was priced realistically. They saved over three times what they spent on eleven years' rent in 2022's fantasy house money and paid what they should have paid in 2008 prices.

I just can't understand this. So they foresaw the market changes 11 years in advance? They spent twice the price of two average UK houses on rent? Then, 11 years later, when the average UK house price has risen by £100,000 they saved six times this average UK house price and bought a house for what they should have paid in 2008.

All the while subsidising borrowers??

Does anyone understand how this works or what figures would have to be involved to make it work?

I need figures

maryso · 11/07/2023 23:22

squirrelsinyourarmchair · 11/07/2023 21:01

My guess is:

a) the “colleague” is actually you
b) you are not un-smug

😁

😁 I wish!

But they are modest people, and usually go their own way quietly in most things.

Interesting how their "good fortune" seems to rile so many people who have been subsidised and are still being subsidised by lenders. I think they're "lucky" because they don't just follow the crowd.

maryso · 11/07/2023 23:36

noglow · 11/07/2023 22:28

I need figures

Well the only indication there is of numbers is the UK average house price, which is of course much lower than London rents for all those years. At one point they mentioned that unless they changed their AST they'd have to pay stamp duty, and their previous home would have been quite pricey even all those years ago.

Perhaps they couldn't find a suitable replacement at an acceptable price due to interest rates crashing and staying low for all that time? Perhaps they were just very unlucky or lucky and a swallow does not make it Spring. What does it matter anyway? We can't change our past actions, and borrowers have benefitted from direct financial support for their living standards. Further interest rates rises are already baked in, the pound has been rising due to the rate rises and if productivity does not accompany wage growth so that inflation abates, rates will continue to rise. For those of us who are not buying or selling, none of this makes any difference, does it?

Lucky borrowers though, being subsidised by lenders for 15 years and still being subsidised while inflation still exceeds the base rate. Wonder how much longer that will last? Not long before the June CPI figures come out, now.

UrsulaIsMyQueen · 12/07/2023 07:46

maryso · 11/07/2023 23:22

😁 I wish!

But they are modest people, and usually go their own way quietly in most things.

Interesting how their "good fortune" seems to rile so many people who have been subsidised and are still being subsidised by lenders. I think they're "lucky" because they don't just follow the crowd.

You appear ‘riled’ that ‘borrowers are being subsidised by lenders’. You’ve mentioned it multiple times on this thread, and others.

noglow · 12/07/2023 08:14

maryso · 11/07/2023 23:36

Well the only indication there is of numbers is the UK average house price, which is of course much lower than London rents for all those years. At one point they mentioned that unless they changed their AST they'd have to pay stamp duty, and their previous home would have been quite pricey even all those years ago.

Perhaps they couldn't find a suitable replacement at an acceptable price due to interest rates crashing and staying low for all that time? Perhaps they were just very unlucky or lucky and a swallow does not make it Spring. What does it matter anyway? We can't change our past actions, and borrowers have benefitted from direct financial support for their living standards. Further interest rates rises are already baked in, the pound has been rising due to the rate rises and if productivity does not accompany wage growth so that inflation abates, rates will continue to rise. For those of us who are not buying or selling, none of this makes any difference, does it?

Lucky borrowers though, being subsidised by lenders for 15 years and still being subsidised while inflation still exceeds the base rate. Wonder how much longer that will last? Not long before the June CPI figures come out, now.

I was just trying to get my head round it. I think I've understood it. Well done them.

maryso · 12/07/2023 09:15

UrsulaIsMyQueen · 12/07/2023 07:46

You appear ‘riled’ that ‘borrowers are being subsidised by lenders’. You’ve mentioned it multiple times on this thread, and others.

Well you've missed or ignored the real damage this has done to the economy, @UrsulaIsMyQueen
The trouble is not which Government is in, the trouble is extremist administrations, whether Johnson or Corbyn. Neither are good for the country, however that's what people chose. I hope that Starmer will be thinking how to doggedly invest in the future and that there is no shift to another extremist administration, but the future will unfold whatever anyone hopes or thinks. These are the things that should rile us, not envy for others. What I have and will keep saying still hasn't penetrated some skulls, so those which have registered it may exercise some patience for the slower ones.

Something like "buy before you breed" is an option that has served many ordinary people, who have half an eye on their futures, well. Whoever tries to pin it on "Tory" thinking courts insulting non-partisan people and just perpetuating a divide that serves nobody.

Interest rates will keep rising and the only way out if productivity cannot be increased is going to be difficult. I've said before while borrowers are still being subsidised, get the debt down. That's common sense, and is a better option than anything else. I've no skin in the game and not engaged in residential buying for decades, nor intend to. Nor do I keep anything more than operational minima in retail banking, so low savers' interest rates when they've been subsidising borrowers for 15 years and still are, doesn't affect me. People will find buying as difficult as it always has been, and degrading the UK economy is the one thing that makes it the most difficult because we can't compete with other parts of the world who have not been fed free money for 15 years. Out infrastructure is not competitive, all we do is shoot ourselves in the foot by attacking chimera. Attacking each other passes the time of day, I suppose, in the waiting room of life.

UrsulaIsMyQueen · 12/07/2023 09:25

maryso · 12/07/2023 09:15

Well you've missed or ignored the real damage this has done to the economy, @UrsulaIsMyQueen
The trouble is not which Government is in, the trouble is extremist administrations, whether Johnson or Corbyn. Neither are good for the country, however that's what people chose. I hope that Starmer will be thinking how to doggedly invest in the future and that there is no shift to another extremist administration, but the future will unfold whatever anyone hopes or thinks. These are the things that should rile us, not envy for others. What I have and will keep saying still hasn't penetrated some skulls, so those which have registered it may exercise some patience for the slower ones.

Something like "buy before you breed" is an option that has served many ordinary people, who have half an eye on their futures, well. Whoever tries to pin it on "Tory" thinking courts insulting non-partisan people and just perpetuating a divide that serves nobody.

Interest rates will keep rising and the only way out if productivity cannot be increased is going to be difficult. I've said before while borrowers are still being subsidised, get the debt down. That's common sense, and is a better option than anything else. I've no skin in the game and not engaged in residential buying for decades, nor intend to. Nor do I keep anything more than operational minima in retail banking, so low savers' interest rates when they've been subsidising borrowers for 15 years and still are, doesn't affect me. People will find buying as difficult as it always has been, and degrading the UK economy is the one thing that makes it the most difficult because we can't compete with other parts of the world who have not been fed free money for 15 years. Out infrastructure is not competitive, all we do is shoot ourselves in the foot by attacking chimera. Attacking each other passes the time of day, I suppose, in the waiting room of life.

Woah, I didn’t give my opinion on it at all, so I’m not sure where that has come from. I just said you seem riled about it, as you mention it in nearly every post you make.

maryso · 12/07/2023 09:27

UrsulaIsMyQueen · 12/07/2023 09:25

Woah, I didn’t give my opinion on it at all, so I’m not sure where that has come from. I just said you seem riled about it, as you mention it in nearly every post you make.

Well now you know, @UrsulaIsMyQueen
And what is your opinion?

UrsulaIsMyQueen · 12/07/2023 09:34

Pretty much the same as yours. I work in finance, albeit international fraud is more my area of expertise, but I have a fairly solid understanding of the lending market. I just don’t see what saying ‘borrowers have been subsidised by lenders’ repeatedly on multiple threads across the site without any further commentary on that achieves. Your most recent post is far more helpful in actually explaining the situation for ‘the slower ones’, as you so charmingly call them.

maryso · 12/07/2023 09:44

I don't teach or work in finance. If 15 years' and counting of subsidy has not been openly acknowledged by borrowers, and the consequences addressed, slowness of grasp is a fact. Speed and accuracy are critical to getting things right, and lack of it has made out country poorer and more exposed. Rearranging deck chairs didn't work too well for the Titanic. Nor did the charming musicians playing to sooth the soon to be lost souls.

UrsulaIsMyQueen · 12/07/2023 09:51

If you were a teacher, you’d know that repeating the same thing in the same way over and over again doesn’t make someone more able to understand a concept.

Twiglets1 · 12/07/2023 09:58

UrsulaIsMyQueen · 12/07/2023 09:51

If you were a teacher, you’d know that repeating the same thing in the same way over and over again doesn’t make someone more able to understand a concept.

So true (I’ve worked as a teaching assistant).

It just makes the eyes glaze over

maryso · 12/07/2023 09:58

Firstly I'm not one to think that MN posts change anything! They are for amusement and very occasionally interesting, but don't make the world go round, so to speak.

More to the point, the onus is always for one to learn, especially for adults, and in my line of work, not learning has immediate consequences. Teaching is irrelevant and only suitable for children who are being taught how to learn. Children aren't in the mortgage game.

maryso · 12/07/2023 10:01

Twiglets1 · 12/07/2023 09:58

So true (I’ve worked as a teaching assistant).

It just makes the eyes glaze over

I've always found learners are those who engage their minds, not just lend their bodies in space. Surely their eyes glaze over because they're not in the right space? Change the space to one they'll engage in. Mortgagees who are exposed with eyes glazed over may wish to leave that space before they fail?

Twiglets1 · 12/07/2023 10:06

maryso · 12/07/2023 10:01

I've always found learners are those who engage their minds, not just lend their bodies in space. Surely their eyes glaze over because they're not in the right space? Change the space to one they'll engage in. Mortgagees who are exposed with eyes glazed over may wish to leave that space before they fail?

Meanwhile back in the real world …

I’m sure pupils would love to leave their space but sometimes we’re stuck in a particular space and people talking at us repeating the same words endlessly won’t help to get the message across.

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