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Who is BU? Me or the builder?

6 replies

Donotshushme · 02/07/2023 09:45

I recently got a builder to give me a quote to repair the parapet wall on my roof as render was falling off it. He quoted £2200 to repair and re render the parapet including scaffolding. They did the back fine (but a couple of small patches that needed rendering on the lower floor they need to redo because they cracked within a day). When they went to do the front they said that the brickwork was falling apart and made it sound like the whole parapet was at risk of falling down, put the anxiety into me for sure. They said they'd need a bricklayer come and look at it. Once done, he said that worst case they'd need to completely demolish the parapet, and basically replace the whole lot. The cost was quoted at £3900 for 4-5 days work, which of course having been told the roof was going to fall down, i agreed to. He said that was the price for the absolute worst case scenario for a full rebuild. The rendering costs were still at the originally quoted price. So his scaffolding was already up, i didn't feel it was possible to get another few quotes and waste time if we were in danger of having the roof fall on our heads. The builders all stood around and said it was the worst and most dangerous parapet they'd ever seen.

So. They came to do the job of removing and replacing the parapet and turned out it was nowhere near as bad as they thought, they were able to salvage and reuse pretty much all the existing bricks and things. From what we can see they replaced about 10 bricks. The first day they turned up at 8 and went home at 3. They did work quite hard.

The next day they turned up at 8 and sat outside in their van for 20 minutes and started at about 8.30. id say they did about 3 hours worth of work on that second day, they took an hour's lunch break - no problem with that but i was wfh in the room that overlooks where they were working. I noticed that they took a lot of breaks and at one point they both sat in the van for over an hour scrolling on their phones. It seemed every time i looked out they were sitting down. I thought they were waiting for more materials to be delivered but then my DH heard them say "i can't get motivated today, shall we call it a day?" And packed up and went home again about 3.

They then turned up nearly an hour late the following day and spent about 45 minutes basically collecting their ladders and tools, and then went. So if they'd put in a full day the day before, it would have been finished in probably 1.5 days.

The main builder phoned and asked if i was happy, wanting me to pay him £3900. I said i wasnt happy with paying the builders to sit around, and also they quoted the job as a full replacement but they were apparently able to repair it pretty easily and quickly so i felt that the price needed to be looked at. He went fairly quickly into full on defensive mode and accused me of not wanting to pay for the job, why am i only saying I'm unhappy with it now, the roof is fixed and they price per job so regardless of what happens with the job, that's the price. He agreed to knock off the 3rd days labour bringing it down to £3200 but i feel that's still really, really high for 10 bricks, some cement and 1.5 days labour for two guys. He was really rude about it and said he's not accepting any less.

So... Am i the one who is being out of order? I agreed the price, true, based on their description of the very dangerous state of the roof and the extent of the work needed. No scaffold included in that price, that's accounted for in the rendering cost. He asked me how much i thought i should pay and i said £2k and he basically laughed at me and said no way.

Id also just paid him £10k to landscape the garden, and that also needs repairs to the patio within days because the builders were walking on it before it was set, which he has accepted and they are going to come back and fix. I was pretty upset about his attitude and the suggestion that i was trying to avoid paying when i paid him for the garden work as soon as he asked for it.

He's going to be round again at the end of the week and i just want to know if im in the wrong because i agreed to the price, and the job has been done because i feel like I'm being ripped off.

I've got adhd and anxiety and his attitude talking over me and not letting me speak had really got to me so i don't want to deal with him but also i don't want to be ripped off. I do struggle with getting my point across coherently especially when I'm stressed or having an argument. In the end i said ok to £3200 to get him off the phone before i got too emotional.

OP posts:
ATeamsvan · 02/07/2023 09:49

So what did they do that was additional to the job that was quoted 2200 for?
If they've said they'll make good the patio, get they to actually be done before you finish paying or I doubt it will be.
Although they sound like they've taken the piss, other than negotiating the price down a bit I think it will be far more stressful for you to refuse to pay them, drawing a line under it and enjoying your home would probably be the best option.

nevynevster · 02/07/2023 09:53

It's very hard to know as I don't know the state things were in etc.
If you agreed a fixed price for the work then it's a fixed price regardless of it takes more or less time and effort than expected.
I think in hindsight it may have been better to pay them a small fee to do further investigation and then requite. Or once they confirmed it was not as bad as originally thought ask them for a requote before continuing.

However as you didn't do this I'm afraid it's all just then a matter of negotiation. You seem to be in a reasonably strong position, given he quoted for full replacement and it was not that. The easiest thing may be to hand him a cheque or cash for the amount that you are prepared to pay and say that's your full and final settlement as you had understood the quote to be a "not to exceed" quote rather than a fixed price and unless he can provide a detailed invoice with the breakdown of the £3200 (parts, labour etc) you consider this to be a reasonable amount for the work completed.

However you may antagonise him a bit with this approach and if you are anxious it may be worth having your DP present for moral support. And of course you have to consider other work you may be undertaking with him and what you want him to do in the future. Good luck

fromtheshires · 02/07/2023 10:03

if I had hired someone to do my rear garden and they need to fix it because they couldn't keep off the slabs, I don't think i would have hired them for other jobs, but it's even worse since you have hired them again and they didnt fix the garden first 😬😬

when I had my builders in, they gave me quotes per brick needing to be used. At the end i got to either keep the few bricks or he disposed (aka kept for his next job) of them. Som days they worked all day and others they turned up for a couple of hours. I was paying for the job, not day rates.

i think it was foolish of you not to get quotes from different builders, most people i know, know a builder who would come round for a cuppa and £50 cash to have a look on their way home from other jobs if it really was urgent before you could get some proper quotes.

it all depends on what the quote says too. If it just says to make good the parapet he has you as he did make good the parapet. I think we would need to see the quotes and price breakdowns to see who is unreasonable

Donotshushme · 02/07/2023 10:22

fromtheshires · 02/07/2023 10:03

if I had hired someone to do my rear garden and they need to fix it because they couldn't keep off the slabs, I don't think i would have hired them for other jobs, but it's even worse since you have hired them again and they didnt fix the garden first 😬😬

when I had my builders in, they gave me quotes per brick needing to be used. At the end i got to either keep the few bricks or he disposed (aka kept for his next job) of them. Som days they worked all day and others they turned up for a couple of hours. I was paying for the job, not day rates.

i think it was foolish of you not to get quotes from different builders, most people i know, know a builder who would come round for a cuppa and £50 cash to have a look on their way home from other jobs if it really was urgent before you could get some proper quotes.

it all depends on what the quote says too. If it just says to make good the parapet he has you as he did make good the parapet. I think we would need to see the quotes and price breakdowns to see who is unreasonable

Hopefully you didn't mean to be so rude. I did get other quotes. The roof and the garden projects were running concurrently, i went with him because everything needed to be coordinated so the roofers and landscapers didn't get in each others way. so i didn't have a chance to see the issues with the garden because the roof was being done at the same time.

OP posts:
Isheabastard · 02/07/2023 10:27

It sounds rubbish as well.

I think it’s difficult and there is a subset of builders who will try it on if they think their client doesn’t know any better.

My brother recently had some roofing repairs that he queried. He had gone up the ladder and seen it before and after, so he was able to prove his point.

It’s definitely worth querying it all.
I have been fooled too many times like this. So now I make sure that anything to do with stuff like this I get full and written quotes, hours of work, photos before and after, and a promise to clear up.

Some builders/workers like to keep it informal and matey. It makes it easier for them to fudge the line of what was agreed beforehand. That is why good straightforward workmen are rarely out of work.

fromtheshires · 02/07/2023 10:43

Donotshushme · 02/07/2023 10:22

Hopefully you didn't mean to be so rude. I did get other quotes. The roof and the garden projects were running concurrently, i went with him because everything needed to be coordinated so the roofers and landscapers didn't get in each others way. so i didn't have a chance to see the issues with the garden because the roof was being done at the same time.

if they were run concurrently, you run the risk of not getting your paving sorted if you don't pay up.

what did the quote say? This is crucial

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