What to do at query stalemate before exchange

[Burnly]

I'm in a really frustrating and slightly strange situation in that I have a buyer for my mother's house (probate sale) that has always seemed very keen and wanting to buy as soon as possible to the extend of handpicking some items of furniture to keep and having architects over a few times for some works she wants done. Slightly concerningly she's also had some items of post delivered to the house which I wasn't going to raise as despite being uncomfortable I took it at least as a very good sign the sale would get wrapped up smoothly and she wouldn't pull out. However, her solicitor is not backing down over a minor issue over the land registry plan whereby the land registry's map search tool is showing a slightly larger area within the garden than on the title (very slight in practice were talking a few meters and it's a boundary my mother had no issues in the 20 odd years she lived there). We've given repeated assurances that map search accurately reflects the boundary and now the solicitor is trying to get me to do statutory declaration to agree to an area she's arbitrarily marked on the title plan which my solicitor advises isn't necessary. It's a bit of a stalemate now and I'm considering relisting to force a decision and her choice to get post sent to a house she is delaying buying is making me quite angry! I wondered if anyone has any advice.

@Burnly I would be concerned about the post coming to an address when you haven’t exchanged contracts.

May I suggest you make sure the Register has an email address as one of the 3 permitted addresses asap. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/updating-registered-owners-contact-address

Yes, OP, you can only give a stat dec for what YOU believe is to be the true case, NOT what the solicitor wants you to do. If they are wanting you to declare something you don't truly believe is the correct situation, then you simply cannot sign it. Only sign what you believe to be the true position as you know it.

They've asked us to draft it for them 'to approve'. So at least we can draft it although I suspect its going to take a while for my solicitor to get it done and who knows how long after that for them to approve it.

Question for tipping advice what do you mean by 'make sure the Register has an email address as one of the 3 permitted addresses'? Surely she won't have been able to formally change anything herself with the Register?

@Burnly empty properties are prime for fraud. By having an email address as a contact you know you will get any notifications. Snail mail can be intercepted. I regularly recommend this to anyone who owns a home.

It is highly unlikely anything fraudulent is going on, but the combination of delaying tactics and already getting post at a property you don’t own made me think it’s better to be safe than sorry.

I highly doubt there's anything fraudulent going on, I just think she was either getting ahead of herself or perhaps earlier comments suggesting it's insurance quotes or similar might be right. The rest of my experience doesn't chime with her doesn't chime with fraud more of pernickety solicitors. But I'll check with my solicitor for her opinion tomorrow. The estate agent has the key so no one can get unauthorised access at least. Surely all the email to and fro with solicitors, grant of probate and deed title would make fraud by the buyer pretty difficult?!

I like the idea about saying you are executor and as far as you are aware etc etc. How would you know what has happened years and years ago?

I sold Father’s house a few years ago and house had been his for over 50 years. Answered to best of my knowledge.

As others have said - a few metres is not a small space. You see some people using life savings to argue over cms!

It might not even be a few metres that's just a vague guess based off the fact it's a small discrepancy but I take your point. Thing is if anyone was physically at the property and could see the fence boundary against the right of way they'd see that any issues over neighbours arguing the boundary is extraordinarily unlikely. Hard to convey via text/email.

I suppose I've just argued the case for me to just signing the SD to make this go away if a dispute is very unlikely

@GoodChat I had exactly the same done to me. It caused a load of problems when the buyers, who hadn't even exchanged yet, changed my provider to Octopus energy from British gas.

That sounds much worse sorry that happened to you. Was it resolved? I don't even know how you can do that given surely the original utility companies need to be closed by the owners first.

Just scrolled back and realise this in response to another issue. Feel relieved at least something like that hasnt happened in my case.

Yes and that’s the pragmatic thing to do if you want this sale to go ahead not be stalled indefinitely.

The pp who said that the map search tool is not to be relied on is correct. I work at the land registry (and I suspect they do too). Your solicitor is wrong on this point.

The title plan forms part of the register but the red line shows the general position of the boundary, not the position of the legal boundary. The LR website (on gov.uk) has further information on this subject. Google "Land Registry boundaries".

I know you've already said you'll do a stat dec but I just thought I'd clarify the position for you!

I don’t think they are being petty or deliberately holding things up: ‘ a few metres’ is significant! Who else would the land belong to if not the house? Could a neighbour or council demand to bud on the disputed patch, for example?

We had a title plan issue with a private sale, Land Reg sent a surveyor within a few days. The EA facilitated access. (However, it got delayed because Land Reg sent the survey appointment letter to the empty house, so check this if you go this route).

In the end we did a Declaration in terms we agreed with. And an indemnity. While waiting for Title Plan to be updated.

The fence that has divided the garden from next door has been there for decades far as I know and from just a normal eye view map search looks more accurate than the title plan but equally the plan is, for want of a better way to describe it, more 'zoomed out' so it was really hard for me initially to account for the discrepancy and my solicitor felt getting someone to come in and measure up would only raise more questions than it would answer. Seems the stat dec is the only answer but I ultimately don't understand how it would hold up in the very unlikely event of a dispute if the title plan isn't amended but they didn't ask me to contact the land registry to try and get it amended so I wouldn't want to do something that no one has asked for. As said earlier I'll try and take the pragmatic approach, but it strikes me that if the buyer does go through with the sale she's still going to have to accept the risk, however small it may be.

I have to ask though if the title plan/red lines show the general boundary what on earth shows the strictly legal boundary and why isn't that being brought out and compared to the plan? It's all very confusing to me

It's not possible to show the precise position of the boundary on the title plan because of the scale they're drawn at. There is more information about this on the website.

If your buyer will accept a statement from you then that's your best option - any issues will be for them to sort out later.

The title plan isn't intended to show where the legal boundary is. It's a complicated area of law which is why I said to have a look at the website.

If the title plan doesn't agree with the fences then it's possible that the title plan may need to be updated (but you'd need to show why - based on the title deeds and this may take some time to sort out) or it might be that your mum was in possession of land that she didn't actually own (adverse possession) in which case the buyer could make an application to be registered as the owner of the additional land.

Thank you I will definitely read up more on this. I suspect then that it's not so much that the title plan is wrong is more that the scale makes it impossible to reflect the subtle difference in boundary edges but of course I can't know with 100% certainty I can only vouch for the boundaries as best I understand them.

In case anyone is interested we're doing a statement of truth rather than a statutory declaration and having also to supply an indemnity policy. Fortunately the credit on my mother's bill accounts will effectively pay for this so I am proceeding to push the sale through. My solicitor did confirm that there were weeks of silence before they asked for this at the 11th hour so it is definitely not our fault about the hold up to the sale as we thought they'd previously accepted our assurances. Morale of the story though - pragmatism reigns. Get it done.

I agree a pragmatic approach solves the problem.

We recently pulled out of a sale due to something similar.

The area in question was about 10’ x 4.5’ so not insignificant and whilst it has clearly been that way for some time the vendors refused to speak with the neighbour in order to have the title plan amended with LR.

The offered a statement of truth and an Indemnity Policy which we may have been prepared to accept if the excess hadn’t have been £10,000 - ultimately that far too risky for us.

Interestingly in the 6 weeks since we withdrew it has already fallen through again although I wouldn’t know if it’s for the same reason!

Sorry that didn't work out for you, we suggested they select the indemnity policy that works well for them and I'll be paying so long as it is not unreasonably expensive. That excess sounds a bit crazy. They never asked me to approach the neighbour and had they done so weeks ago when the issue was first identified I might well have.