dogs in blocks of flats

[SuePine69]

Do you live in a block of flats where pets aren't allowed? Did you choose to live in a block of flats where there are no dogs? Well, you might be in for a big surprise.

I've just had a man with a dog move in next door to me. I never thought that could happen. I was always told no pets. I don't mind any pet except for dogs. My sister has a dog lives in a block where many other residents also have dogs. It's noisy with all the yapping and barking. If they're happy that's OK with me but I wouldn't want to live there.

I complained about it. They haven't consulted the residents. They didn't tell anyone about the change in policy. I was actually offered another flat in a different area earlier this year and I turned it down. If I had known there were going to be dogs in the block I would not have done.

What makes me really angry is that I have been told something that is false - as far as I can tell. I was told that there is a government directive now that says landlords can't refuse dogs. She said 'our hands are tied'.

Whatever the new rules are, as far as I can see it only applies to people who are already tenants. It doesn't apply to prospective tenants. Someone who requests a flat in my block and says they want to keep a dog can be refused. Even a tenant can be refused if there's good reason.

If someone's front door opens onto a path or road they can have a pet. If their front door opens onto a shared corridor then they can't. This is an established principle and I see no reason for it to change.

They should have given this man a flat with a front door that doesn't open onto a shared corridor, like all the flats in the block where my sister lives - or a bungalow. I don't want to stop anyone from doing what they want.

I was told that they would never let our block get like my sister's. But I have no confidence that they can solve problems. That flat was empty because my former neighbour left, partly because they moved an alcoholic in below him. This man shouted at the top of his voice for hours on end. I could hear it in my flat. He said that he was getting woken up too. So he took me with him to complain. They completely dismissed his complaints. This alcoholic has since died of an alcohol related condition.

The dog could even be an assistance dog or help with anxiety. My ex had had our dog certified so he can go to work. Dogs can be very helpful to people.

It seems the issues go beyond a single dog. What I'm reading is nimbyism, alcoholics, ex prisoners?? It's social housing for over 55's but they obviously aren't only gentle old ladies now

It's frustrating and I completely understand people who have dog allergies or anxieties being upset about the change meaning they don't really have a choice but to deal with dogs in communal spaces before they leave their building

It's fine to be upset, but there's not much you can do about it. I have a peephole and a fairly good ear for who's in the communal spaces and used to avoid a giant dog with poor owners by waiting till they'd left before I did

Just look at your communal space as if it's the street and treat it that way

Just look at your communal space as if it's the street and treat it that way.

I would prefer regard my home (and its 'communal' spaces) as a 'safe space'. If dogs are permitted, I can't do that.

Since 2021, twenty-one people have been KILLED by dogs in the UK - most recently a women in her 70s, in Warwickshire - merely walking down the street to buy a loaf of bread.

Between April and November 2022, 2,345 people required NHS SURGERY as a result of dog attacks - 255 of them were 4 years or younger.

You are definitely not insane and certainly not BU.

No dogs should be living in a flat, both for their sake and for that of neighbours.

In a block of flats specifically for older people then absolutely not - falls and their sequelae are one of the major causes of death in the elderly and dogs are a trip hazard.

I can't believe people in this thread have compared dogs to unsupervised kids 😅
That's crazy, I don't know where you live but in my poor working class town I've never been bitten by a child, I would happily walk down an alley or through a field amongst a group of unsupervised kids..would I do the same with a pack of dogs? No! I'd turn around and walk back the other way.

But anyway OP I'm with you, a block of flats isn't a suitable place for dogs 🤷🏽‍♀️ some dog owners seem so entitled but even looking at it from the best interest of the dog, it's completely unfair. I think we need a shift in attitudes towards pets, I love animals but pets aren't a "right" we're entitled to and people need to learn to accept that not all circumstances are compatible to keeping certain animals.

I'm also pretty shocked at the attitude of a PP implying that OP shouldn't complain because she's in social housing 🤦🏽‍♀️ that's a really shitty attitude to have.

You sound lovely!!!!!! Not

If your housing is social housing they are exempt from the law changevyo allow dogs. They don't have to.
The law isn't in yet either.

Thankfully you’re wrong - they can’t refuse pets without good reason, but can refuse if there is a good reason.

I’m a LL and I’ve refused my tenants permission as I’m highly allergic and will likely live in the house again - which is fair enough.

Plus I don't have a clue if they’re good pet owners or not - I don’t want their dog trashing my house.

A new law has not been passed 🙄

A lot of scenarios being used here, packs of dogs, dogs sat in communal areas, dogs barking all night.
As for ‘pets aren’t a right’, neither is social housing!
I say live and let live, as long as the dog isn’t barking all night or shitting on the stairs, find something else to worry about.

Housing is a right. And one of the most basic necessities. For some, social housing is all that stands between them and homelessness. How can you compare that to a persons "right" to a pet?

As @Deathbyfluffy says, a landlord can refuse pets for several reasons. Being a nuisance to neighbours is one of them. Health (allergies), religious, and suitability (large dog in a small flat for example) are other reasons. Landlords can also insist pet owners have insurance against damage. And they can refuse if they think the tenant is not a responsible owner. So, ultimately, if there is a 'no pets' or 'permission needed' for a pet in the lease, then written permission needs to granted (or refused) in writing. The landlord has 28 days to do so.
Your reasons for not wanting a dog next door seem to come under 'nuisance' in terms of noise. If the dog is a nuisance, complain. You can't object simply because you don't like or are scared of dogs. But your landlord is not correct - their hands are not 'tied'.

Not really necessary or helpful.

This is not the case. The RRBill has not been passed into law and currently a landlord can refuse pets for no reason at all. There is currently no requirement for insurance and no time limits on refusals.

Living next to a barking dog is enough to drive anyone insane. The one next to me obviously has separation anxiety and barks incessantly from the moment its owner leaves the house. So the owner thinks her dog doesn't bark because it's generally quiet when she's home.

If the dog’s needs are properly met then it shouldn’t be a problem. As ever, it depends on the owner. I do think that indoor communal areas should be kept pet free and obviously dog owners clear up dog poo immediately.

Your OP is very dramatic in language and tone OP. That may be where the 'insane' comments are coming from.

A dog in a block of flats sounds difficult for owners, I couldn't be bothered with having to go out each time dog wanted a pee. But, it seems the landlords have decided thy accept dogs and have declared it on their website. Not much else you can do other than move out, or accept it.

I said that dogs are potentially dangerous. How can you deny that? I am not scared of them, but lots of people are. If you are an old woman in her 80s or 90s and you are in a corridor or on the stairs with a dog coming the other way then why would you not be frightened of them? I live in sheltered accommodation.

I said earlier on this thread that dogs are unpredictable. I have just finished reading Sharon Osbourne's autobiography and she wrote that she was nearly killed by dogs. She lost her unborn child. These were dogs in her parent's house that she knew, but something set them off.

I said earlier on this thread that I often see big un-neutered male dogs on the street. My sister moved from Toxteth to the Wirral partly because there were lots of big dog attacks on family dogs in her local park. She feared for her own dog. Do you think she wants any tenant to get the right to have one in her block of flats?

I have never said I don't want people to have dogs. Let people who want dogs live in blocks of flats with other people who have dogs. Pets can benefit people's mental health, but cats don't bark at night and wake people up. Getting a good night's sleep is good for mental health too.

As for a 'responsible HA'. I have spoken to someone at Magenta Living and he told me that they're not happy about the new arrangements because it makes a lot more work for them. Which is weird because Magenta went far further than they needed to go.

The legislation has yet to be passed but there has been a white paper. Magenta says they have aligned their pet policy with the white paper. But the white paper is only to do with the private sector and has nothing to do with social housing. Also, it is only to do with existing tenants, not people who have applied. There is nothing to say that someone who want to move in with their dog has the right to do so.

The pet policy also states that Magenta will take all kinds of things into consideration, such as individual gardens versus a communal garden. They haven't done that. I can't blame Debi Marriott-Lavery because she has been in her post only a short time. It certainly isn't true that their 'hands are tied' and they have to let people move in with dogs.

My sister's dog barks for hours on end. She said once she can't spend much time with me because when there are workmen outside the flat the dog keeps barking so she needs to get back home.

When I went to her block there were two little dogs who were in the window of one flat barking at anyone who came into the communal garden.

They bark when they are alone in the flat, and even if it is only when the doorbell goes why should we put up with that? If you think we should just suck it up you can think again.

So you think that the mental health of the tenants in her block is better than in mine? I don't think so. Do these stats show that dogs specifically benefit peoples' mental health. Or is it just that dogs are lumped in with cats and all the others.

I have told you about the noisy neighbour, the alcoholic who shouted at the top of his voice for hours on end. I could hear it even though he wasn't below me. We complained about it and they would do nothing. It only ended when he died - of alcoholism. What do you think that did to my (good) neighbour's mental health. Don't tell me that landlords give a damn about their tenants' mental health.

There's little point replying to me. I lost the point of why you posted this thread or what you hope to achieve a long time ago.

Btw, I have known cats that scream at the top of their voices for 18 hours away from separation anxiety before, when someone else is present in the flat, but not their owner.

I think there is something that we can do about it. When I was speaking to a man from Magenta Living on the phone on Monday he said that they will revue the pet policy and will do it regularly. He said that they always welcome feedback from tenants, and told me how I could express my concerns.

So I have sent them an email. I hope that when the old lady in her 90s below me dies they are not going to put someone with a dog in there. I don't have anyone living above me or to one side thank God. I think they now know how angry I would be if they did. So at least that's something.

What I hope to achieve is that Magenta Living review their pets policy. I don't want a dog in the flat below me when the old lady dies (if the old lady wants a cat I have no problem). I want to give hope to people who feel that they can't do anything about dogs in their block. I want to understand and help others to understand that this white paper doesn't even apply to social housing or to applicants for tenancy. Even so, people might want to contact their MP because the Renters Reform Bill will be debated soon. As far as I can tell. If anyone knows otherwise they can post here. Keep us informed.

Aren’t you charming

I don't even know if you know what your issues are?
you keep going off on tangents that aren’t even relevant.
not ALL dogs bark all the time, just because your sisters did lol
my cat was noisier than any dog!
my family member lives in sheltered accommodation WITH a dog ( not a block of flats)
the dog does not bark, she walks it and it doesn’t mess on communal areas.
it’s given her a new life.

But you seem to be absolutely fixated on the experiences of your sister rather than things you have gone through yourself.

I am beginning to get the impression that your sister has an unhealthy amount of influence on you, particularly when it comes to your level of stress on this matter.

I appreciate you are not happy and that things have unexpectedly changed, but I think you are channelling your concerns in the wrong direction.

You would be far better off getting other residents involved to try to make some changes happen rather than arguing with us all on here.