What Can/Should I do? Historical Building Regulations Issue Raised

[MaisOuiMaisOui]

I just don’t know where to go with this and am feeling really stressed out. Grateful for any suggestions of what I should do.

My neighbour had an extension completed recently. Building Inspector asked if he could go in my garden to complete his inspection of the neighbour’s extension. He walked through my house, into garden had a look at whatever he needed to over our fence and 2 mins later left.

The next day he came back knocked on my door and started asking questions about our loft conversion. Which was weird. Conversion was completed 20+ years ago, before we bought the house. Certificate of completion for the work is filed with the deeds. Nothing raised by surveyor during house purchase.

So I outlined all of that minus the comment about the surveyor and asked him why he wanted to know. He told me that he can see from his brief walk through that our house doesn’t comply with building regs because the stairway isn’t enclosed and that would be required. And that this is unacceptable in his view.

The house was built in 1990 and has an open plan kitchen/dining room with the stairs going up from the dining room area - so stairs are ‘open’ to the kitchen. The layout is unchanged from 1990.

The inspector had gone back to the office after spending 30 seconds in my house the day before and pulled the paperwork for the loft conversion. He is adamant (and quite aggressive in his manner) and insisted that at the time the work was signed off for our loft the plan includes a wall across the dining room to create a new corridor and segregate the stairs from the kitchen. And he told me the wall must have been removed in the interim period and that must be corrected. I was astonished! From his tone he was clearly suggesting we had removed the wall. You only have to take a look at the estate agent info from when we bought the house to see that’s absurd. There is no evidence a wall was ever there and the layout would just not work if anyone put a wall in such a crazy location. It would not have been worth converting the loft.

House is semi detached and attached neighbour’s layout is identical, they had the same loft conversion completed a couple of years before our house did. Also no wall in their property just the same as ours. So it seems pretty unbelievable to suggest a wall was ever there. Or that both property owners put a wall up for building control then took it down.

Building inspector stomped off when i raised all of that. Told me he would be in touch.

I have no knowledge of the details of the loft conversion and completely accept that the regs are such that if the house was built today the staircase would need to be enclosed.

I don’t believe anyone put up a partition wall and I don’t believe anyone did any sneaky structural changes subsequently. There’s just no evidence of it and the fact both my and my neighbours property had a loft conversion a couple of years apart and have the same layout suggests to me at least that the layout we both have was compliant with the regs at the time.

I would like to know if what he is saying is correct. So basically whether 20 years ago what he is describing would have been required. Where can I go to get the answer?

And surely if the house was so obviously non compliant with building regs a couple of years after the work was completed when we bought the property, shouldn’t that have been noted in our survey?

sorry for the long post - thanks if you read it all!

So to clarify, the stairs begin in the kitchen and go all the way up to the loft room? If so I imagine this is non-compliant due to the kitchen being the highest risk area for fires, and if there were a fire the escape route from the loft would immediately be blocked.
However, to my knowledge the local authority get a window of about 2 years to enforce compliance, and after that they can't actually do anything about it. Interestingly they get a longer period where they can go after the builders, but that isn't your problem.
What has he actually threatened you with?

So yes the stairs come up from the dining room which is connected to the kitchen via an archway - no door.

The loft has an egress window to provide a means of escape. The first floor bedrooms would be affected the same way as the loft in the even of a fire. Which was clearly ok at the time the house was built.

But is this my problem? Building control signed the work off at the time of the loft conversion, so surely they don’t get to randomly change their mind 20 years later.

His tone was threatening, but hasn’t threatened me with any action, just his statement that it needs to be rectified.

I just would like to know how I can establish definitively whether he is right or wrong and shut this down.

So you're saying it was signed off but the signed off plans included a protected escape route from the 2nd floor. This has subsequently (possibly immediately) been amended meaning the escape route from the loft is no longer compliant.

This is a known trick and maybe it was the same builder that did both conversations and did the same trick.

It's the home owner that's responsible for building regs so you would have to take action against the surveyor to cover any costs.
Yes it's true that they couldn't enforce unless something is dangerous as it's more than 12 months since the work, but even if it's not enforceable it's your lives that are at risk.

I would recommend working with building control rather than against them, and look into a sprinkler system retro fit, if that was acceptable to building control. You can take action against the surveyor if you have evidence it was like that at the time of purchase and it should have been brought to your attention, and you have incurred costs as a result.

The BCOS attitude is one thing but there are lots of people in life who don't have people skills. Look at it another way, it's lucky he spotted it before you haven forbid have a fire in your kitchen and need to escape.

Good luck.

Could you put bifold doors between the kitchen & dining room this separating the two rooms?

Thanks @johnd2 I agree with you that he is raising an issue that really is a hazard. And also agree that addressing it will address some genuine risks. But the work was signed off and presumably compliant at the time.

The work was all done before we owned the property so I can’t say whether he is right or not about there being a wall on the original plan, or if the plan was amended during the process. And that’s my point.

I am very happy to cooperate, if being treated fairly. But I want to understand whether what he is saying is true. Which if it is and he spotted it after 10 seconds in my house, wouldn’t our surveyor be expected to have raised the same point?

I genuinely don’t believe that walls were put up for building control and removed after the inspection.

Is there a door at the bottom of the attic stairs? We have an open plan layout like yours, and we’re able to not have a wall and door at the bottom as we had one at the bottom of the attic stairs, which are enclosed.

I think there are multiple solutions available IF what the inspector is saying is correct.

I want some confirmation whether what building control is saying is correct though. And we should not be paying to correct an issue not raised when we bought the house if it really is as obvious as is being presented.

And I completely object to the tone and suggestion we have done something wrong.

I think he is overstepping. You allowed him access to check the neighbours work and he's gone looking at yours - it feels very underhand.

Most properties with older work would fail current regs on some aspect.

However, means of escape and fire is really really important.

If you want to address it, I'd take my own independent advice and not from this guy. If you end up getting it signed off, ask for someone else from the Council and not him.

there would have been plans submitted to the Council
Did you see them when you bought the property
The survey report will say something like ‘ the attic has been converted and the valuation assumes the appropriate consents were obtained
The surveyor doesn’t check that

That’s exactly my feeling. He didn’t like me asking him to explain what he was saying and is being difficult.

I want independent advice to confirm or refute. Where can I get that?

Survey says “we have seen the completion certificate showing that the work was carried out to meet the building regulations.”

The regulations would’ve required a protected route, even 20 years ago - so he is correct in this regard.

Building control wouldn’t be able to take enforcement action due to the amount of time that has elapsed.

Your only real issue is that any insurance claims for fire could be invalidated.

If you opt (and it would be your choice) to make the layout compliant, you need to ensure the stairs are compartmented and the doors would need to be fire doors.

And we never saw the plans and don’t have access to them. We had the completion cert and a survey that didn’t raise ANY issues so there were no red flags when we purchased the property.

You should always see the plans to ensure the current layout reflects the permission
The Council will have a copy of the plans

Surely the responsibility for raising overt non-compliance with building regs sits squarely with the surveyor and the responsibility for checking what has been signed off matches the plans sits with the solicitor doing the conveyancing. Why do we all pay so much for this if they aren’t covering the basics.

Have you looked at the council's online planning portal for any planning permission granted for your house?

Yes absolutely it would be the surveyor, hence if it wasn't raised on the report and you paid for a survey that should have raised it, then you can claim against their insurance for any costs associated with resolving the situation.
However they wouldn't cover any emotional issues caused by a rude surveyor or anxiety etc.
If this is becoming an issue you could instruct a solicitor to recover any costs incurred.

There’s no planning permission as it would have been permitted development but yes there’s a record of the building control approval, but no documentation on the website unfortunately.

Plans submitted for Building Regs aren't normally publicly available like ones for planning applications.

Ok they are in my area
It is extremely difficult to make a claim against a surveyor

So what’s the worst case scenario here. Any ideas? We are likely to want to move in the next year or two. Is is possible our LA will record the inspectors observations formally?

You don’t need to worry. Ultimately responsibility for compliance lies with the building owner and their contractor. You would NEVER be able to claim successfully against building control.

But as I said upthread, you are well beyond the period for enforcement. There is currently secondary legislation planned to extend the enforcement period, but that’s only to 10 years.

Your only issue is if you come to sell and it gets picked up or if you claim on your insurance for fire damage.

Honestly just ignore the guy
I lived in a house that had a loft conversion done 20+ years ago - all open plan - no protected route - lots of similar conversions in the neighbourhood
Building regs and planning were all okay at the time

If we had made changes then we would need to adhere to current regs and ensure a fully protected fire route/ doors etc

Only you can decide if you are happy with your current risk of fire etc

I think your issue might arise if you want to put your house up for sale. I think building control can put the info on the local searches and so it would be seen by the solicitors.

If you want advice you can ask an approved inspector to come and have a look (a private company) and see what you'd need to do to make it safe and regularise the position (although I think the actual regularisation has to go via the council).

Do you have hard wired fire alarms on each floor?

Yes that’s what I am afraid of. Can they do that without informing me? Everything has been informal so far so it would seem really unfair to do that without giving us a chance to respond.

we do have hard wired fire alarms on the first floor and in the loft conversion