Would we not own driveway?

[Nortam]

I downloaded the deeds for the house I'm buying and it looks as though the driveway in front of the house isn't included? It's ex council if that makes a difference. It did used to be grass but was converted into a drive by the previous owners. (Most other owners have done the same) or is it normal for front gardens not to been shown on the deeds? We are first time buyers so have no idea. Thanks in advance

Thanks everyone. And thank you @GU24Mum I have pmd you.

@ShowOfHands that's really reassuring! Sounds pretty much the same as what's going on here.

No problem - will send you a pm with the details though I can't work out how to attach a pdf and won't upload it here as that will give the address info.

Is the property freehold or leasehold?

In my street, built in the early 1970s, part of some front gardens was retained by the council for landscaping purposes.
I didn’t see the deeds to my house when I bought 16 years ago but I did request them when a neighbour posted plans for an extension.

I was shocked to discover about half my front garden wasn’t outlined in the deeds! It turned out the people who bought the house two owners before us had purchased the land from the council but had never added the title into the deeds. Fortunately that owner was tracked down and he was able to sign the land over to us as it had been understood by us and our sellers that it formed part of the property.

It would be worth asking the council who actually owns that land.

I would ask them if there are access allowances but the red line usually is the extent of the ownership. Could ask for an indemnity insurance policy. A lot depends on who owns the strip in front and where the highway starts

Also you could ask for a statutory declaration from the existing owners as to their use of the front as if they have exclusive possession of the property in front of the house, the yellow edged area

So with help from the lovely @GU24Mum I've found out that the council own the front of all the properties, even the ones that have be bought. I've emailed my solicitor so I guess I'll just have to wait and see what they say.

IWe once had a house built in the 50s with a drive, then pavement, then grass, then the dropped kerb. The council tried to tell us that the pavement and grass was easement and owned by the council. The point was that they were going to charge us 10% of the sale price on completion of sale.

We got a solicitor who discovered that the land had historically been owned by the lord of the manor, not the council. I have never come so close to decking someone, as I did with the odious jobsworth who came round initially.

Sad though it is as you love the house, much better you find out now what the position is and can walk away if you need to.

Thanks for everyone who has shared their similar experiences. Would we be stupid to continue with the sale? What kind of problems could this cause in future? Should we lower our offer as we were under the impression we were getting the driveway too?

Something similar happened with my first house @Nortam , in that I had a shed and a parking space both separate from the house and when I got the deeds the parking space was included but the shed wasn’t, rather than the other way around. This sort of mistake was fairly common in ex counsel houses as the conveyancing under right to buy was a bit rubbish- I was worried and amused in equal measures that. One of the 5 owners before me had noticed.
Generally the current owner ( which may no longer be the council but might be a housing association) will be willing to fix it with an additional conveyance ( we did a swap for the parking space & shed)but if it wasn’t included in the value at the time of sale they may want something for it, and they will expect you to cover their legal costs. I would suggest pushing existing seller to sort I, but if not you need a retention of some of the proceeds to cover the costs and a statutory declaration from the current & past owners about how long they have had uninterrupted access etc in case you want to make a claim for diverse possession or need to push the council. Good luck.

Your solicitor will look and find out your right of access. And have the council been maintaining the driveways? Would they be willing to sign it over?
If it's common for the area then it will be fine.

Thanks again everyone. I will update once I know more.

I wouldn't worry too much. We have a house that sounds like yours, ex council semi, the drive belongs to us but the lawn belongs to the council.

We are required to keep the lawn tidy and not fence it off. Our neighbour bought his lawn from the council a couple of years ago, £400 all in so he could turn it into a real garden.

A few people have bought it as they want to concrete it and create more parking.

Most of the houses are privately owned and don't bother buying the front lawn.

Hi just an update. We have FINALLY received the property information for the seller which shows we wouldn't own the driveway. Unfortunately it also shows that we have no right to use the driveway. We do have access to a path to the property but that's it. My solicitor is also now on annual leave until Monday. Does anyone have any advice?

I don't have legal advice, but it depends how much you want the property and whether you are paying too much for what you will actually own.

The vendors clearly knew that they didn't own it and were very deceptive in allowing the drive to be included on the EA's details.

I've just dropped out of buying a house I loved. It has been totally renovated and it turns out that the owner has given part of the kitchen, part of a bedroom and the loft also a chunk of the garden to the next door neighbour and it's not recorded officially anywhere. The disputed area is included in the deeds for both houses.

I didn't want to lose my sale so am buying another house that's not occupied so no real delays in the move.

Sometimes it's just best to find a house with good title.

The only claim you could have would be through adverse possession, but dealing with a council that owns the land could be very tricky.

Oh wow now that is complicated! I think you were best out of that situation!

The house belonged to the owners mother so I really do believe they don't know about the driveway. They've even written 'private driveway' on the property information forms when they ask about parking. When we went for a viewing after offer, they were proudly showing off the block paving they had done themselves on the drive.

@Nortam I see how the confusion came about. They obviously had no idea that their mum didn't own the drive or land. I'm sure the valuation would be substantially less if the EA had had the correct information.

I'd say you have two choices, walk away or take a risk that the council could take enforcement action for the land to be put back to its original state.

I certainly would ask that the house be revalued with the knowledge you have now. I expect that the price you have offered will be well in excess of the real valuation.

It might be worth asking about this on the Garden Law website (there's a discussion forum). There will probably be people there with knowledge of boundaries and rights of way, rights of access etc.

I am puzzled as to why your solicitor is not offering the legal position on this. Firstly, as you do not own it, anyone could park there. You only have to go onto Garden Law forum to find out how petty some people are.

I don't know what the legalities are because the land is council owned, again your solicitor should be advising. Can you go for an easement or adverse possession? I agree posting on Garden Law forum might be quicker than you solicitor for advice.

Personally unless that land becomes attached to the title of the property you are buying I wouldn't touch it.

One thing that I would say is that even if you have no problems at all with this and are able to park there without issue, you will still have problems when you come to sell. I would be reluctant to buy a property knowing that it will be difficult to sell.

I'll try not to make this long but I downloaded the deed title when I first started this thread and saw that the drive wasn't included and emailed the solicitor straight away. Long story short, I only received the property information pack today. (14 weeks in!!) The solicitor said they couldn't do anything until they received this information.

Anyway, on the deed title, it showed that we have access to a foot path and the solicitor said, in their letter, that they assumed this was the driveway I had spoken about. Obviously I emailed back to say this wasn't the driveway but she is now on holiday until the 18th.

I hope that makes sense.

Ex council houses usually come with easements to prevent the new owner serving notice to utility companies to remove equipment that feeds neighbours. My front garden isn’t ex council but the two metres at the front of the garden are a service strip that I don’t own even though I mow them and have plants in it the strip. I have to cross this strip to get off my drive. We were warned that we didn’t own it but we have rights to it. Did you download the written part of the deeds? It’ll list any rights you have.

I don’t have personal experience of it, but there have been cases recently where councils have installed bollards to stop people parking on their driveways if they didn’t get permission to convert the garden.

The one I saw was to do with safety of pedestrians, but if you don’t own the ‘driveway’ at the front of the house and only have pedestrian access across it there would be nothing to stop the council doing the same to you, if they decided to.

I guess it’s unlikely, but I’d be reluctant to take a house on knowing that might be an issue in the future.

Okay so I don't know if this makes any difference but the council have a interactive map where you can see all of the land that is owned by them. All the ex council houses in the surrounding roads have the same set up, as in, council owns the front gardens/driveway. Very strange.

Okay so a slight update. The sellers solicitor has also confirmed we won't own the driveway. Our solicitor has told them that they need to apply to have a right to use the land from the council and that they will need to check with the mortgage lender that this is okay. Is the mortgage company likely to down value the house now? Does anyone know how long this is likely to take as our mortgage offer runs out in December.