Bedsits

[plantingandpotting]

I live in SE London on a street of narrow Victorian terrace houses. It's nice; lots of young families who all know each other by name without being overbearing.

One of the houses was recently sold through probate and building work has been getting increasingly confusing (stud walls going up across windows, multiple doors being installed into the rear of the house). It now turns out the unit is being turned into bedsits.

I feel pretty ignorant as I had thought tiny bedsits (which these will be) were a thing of the past, given the volume of new builds going up.

Does anyone have direct (recent) experience of living in a bedsit or creating one as a property developer? Why would a property developer choose this route, is it more profitable?

I'm probably more invested in this development than I usually would be, as I'm WFH and have been idly watching it evolve each day 😆

Sounds like it could be a hmo. Have a look at what planning application has been approved.

@fruitbrewhaha That was my thought too but I've checked and there's nothing there 🤔

Bedsits have been renamed studio flats, which is why you haven't heard of them for a while.

Yes, it's more profitable for the developer. You can charge more for 8 studios than 4 one bed flats.

Studios invariably seem to be occupied by people who are thoroughly fed up of housesharing but can't afford a one bed.

There's an acute housing shortage - despite all the new builds people are scrabbling for anything they can find - and so they will not be empty for long, especially in London.

@IBetGordonRamsayDoesntHaveTheseProblems Ah! I did consider a studio myself before meeting DH - those had their own bathroom though, which feels logistically impossible with this size of house.

I'd be interested to see how they've divided it. The mind boggles!

Don't underestimate the willingness of a developer to put a shower cubicle right next to the microwave.

This series will give you an idea
https://www.vice.com/en/topic/london-rental-opportunity-of-the-week

If it's turning into an HMo is does need to be regulated by the council for the sake of the safety of tenants. Let them know what is going on

There's a bit of a distinction between bedsits and studio apartments - studio apartments are completely self-contained, whereas bedsits will have some shared facilities, e.g. bathroom or kitchen. I suspect the house near you is being converted to studio apartments - as you say, bedsits are somewhat out of fashion now.

I lived in a studio apartment whilst I was a PhD student - as a PP said, I couldn't afford a one-bed apartment, but was over house sharing! I loved it, felt like my own little independent space, which was a luxury after years of student houses.

There were five studios in the terraced house I was living in, each rented out at about £400/month. The landlord could only have got three one-bed apartments into that house, which at the time in that city would have cost ~£550/month, so definitely worth it.

I think they're a good option for singles/young couples - but one of the studios in my house had two young children in it, which I don't think should be allowed, it seemed very hard work for the parents.

We have lots of HMOs in our Borough ( Lambeth) - 3 bed terraced 1930s houses in south London are around the £450-500K mark which makes them an absolute dream for developers.
The one next door to us has 6 studios in what was a modest 3 bed. I shudder to think how small the rooms must be, even with the dormer extension and back extension.

All this work can be done without planning permission needed as it comes under what is called " permitted development."

Some boroughs are hotter on it than others and have an Article 4 in place, meaning permission has to be granted before development can start.

Lambeth pays the landlord £600 per week for each room if rented to the council - so a 6 bed is pulling in over £185K in rental alone per year so you can see what the draw is for the developers.

We are currently petitioning Lambeth to introduce Article 4 as all the housing stock is being transformed in this way - we are looking to move - unfortunately a lot of the people using this type of accommodation arent overly community minded, and in our road particularly, litter, fly tipping, noise and public nuisance has risen hugely.

Some of the HMOs are used as halfway houses for mental health charities, people with addiction issues, ex prisoners etc. I have sympathy of course , everyone needs to live somewhere. But when you have several of these in adjoining streets, you notice the change in your community pretty sharpish. In some areas, schools struggle with intake because families aren't moving in any more. Some schools are closing.

There is also the problem in that there are never enough bins, rubbish overflows and then you get rats.

Ugh, I could go on.

https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/news/23570686.failsworth-pub-approved-transformed-17-bed-hmo/

17 rooms in one building!
... it would contain 17 bedrooms to accommodate one person per each room.

The rooms range in size with some containing a single bed and up to seven having a double.
All 17 residents will have a shared kitchen and dining area, a living room and two utility rooms.

@LadyOfTheCanyon That sounds really tough - for the neighbors who are helplessly watching their community change for the worse, and for the people being moved into cramped conditions.

I'm in Lewisham. We have two schools on our street and from what I can see, no other HMOs. We'll just have to watch and wait to see if it is the start of a trend.

Right now I'm feeling deeply sorry for the neighbours either side - an elderly gentleman and a young family. These houses aren't great for sound insulation 😓

@IBetGordonRamsayDoesntHaveTheseProblems I've not looked at that feature for years now. It's somehow worse than I remember.

@mumda 17. 17?! How did that get approved 😧

Balls. The street Whatsapp has just been given a sad update.

It's somehow being split into 6 units. Article 4 will be in place for our area from Jan next year, so this is apparently fine and above board.

I had been trying to remain optimistic, but 6 units is dire.

@plantingandpotting

My husband's from Lewisham! We were thinking of moving over that way (Lee specifically) but even though they have article 4 in place, the sort of house we could afford is still the ones that developers are keen on, so no guarantee for the future. It's driving the price of houses down in what was previously a slowly prospering area. There's less people interested in/able to afford the cafes and bakeries and now it seems every other shop is just closing or being turned into a chicken shop.

It's a very sad situation all round - a lot of people living in this type of set up seem to be gig economy workers - Deliveroo drivers, shift workers, Amazon drivers etc as well as students and ( in the case of council HMOs) temporary accommodation for refugees.

I hate that this has made me relatively NIMBYish - I would welcome better thought out and affordable social housing with attendant infrastructure for doctors/refuse collection/transport etc instead of these blatantly profiteering exercises in human misery.

@LadyOfTheCanyon Agreed. I lived next door to a HMO in Hackney that was set up for young adults with learning disabilities. That was done well in a huge house with ample space and sound insulation.

Splitting a small terrace into 6 feels so sensless and greedy.

unfortunately a lot of the people using this type of accommodation arent overly community minded, and in our road particularly, litter, fly tipping, noise and public nuisance has risen hugely.

Having been a renter for over a decade, it's the sense of insecurity that engenders this sort of feeling.

The occupants will know that their landlord can give them two months notice to leave for any reason or none whatsoever, so you always feel desperately insecure.

If you know that you could be forced to move out at any moment, why bother investing time, energy and emotion into your local neighbourhood? It's a waste, and it makes it emotionally harder when you do get evicted; you've lost more.

I don't know what the situation is in your council, but in mine you're only allowed to go to the tip if you have a car. Pedestrians and cyclists aren't allowed in.

I once flytipped a microwave because I had no alternative. I wasn't allowed into the tip on my bike. The landlord didn't want to know. Currys refused to take the old one back when they delivered the new one (I've been boycotting them ever since). The council bulky waste scheme said it was too small for that scheme.

I directly contacted the council to ask how I could legally dispose of it and they told me I should take a taxi to the tip!!! Told them where to shove that expensive idea... I'm not made of money and I already had a hole in my budget from having to buy a new microwave.

I didn't want to, but in the end I waited until midnight and dumped it outside by the tree that always seemed to attract flytipping. The problem disappeared a few days later.

Sometimes councils make doing the right thing damn near impossible.