Covenants

[Shotinthedark2022]

Hi Mumsnetters.I hope someone can give me a bit of advise.

I am in the process of buying a property that is over a 100 years old.The vendor has kept land around it,and has built a new house on that land and is going to build another house also.
Today i received the contract to sign which also included the title of the property.There are quite a lot of covenants in it,which took me by suprise considering it is an old property(not listed).They are very much like new build covenants...No chickens,pigeons etc.No livestock,other than domestic pets.N buisness to run from premises.No signs to be put up.Can't let it as an holiday let.No Air/BB.Must keep garden tidy.Must not do anything to upset vendor.(he is going to live in one of newbuild properties.More besides.I have to say i was completly taken aback.It sounds more like a rental,not something i am paying good money for.I really don't know weither to continue with purchase as i feel he is going to be overseeing everything i do.Has anyone else had any experience of this kind,and what did you do.Also,can you get these covenants removed?
Thank you in anticipation.

This is a wide range of covenants and seems a bit unreasonable. I'd push back and say you are not prepared to undertake all of them but happy to discuss reasonable ones.

I think no holiday let or Airbnb is unreasonable for a detached property. Your circumstances may change. Similar to business, what if you wanted to set up à postal business selling art ? Or something equally innocuous.

Push back the vendor is being a CF

Google Indemnity Insurance. We had some weird covenants, including one which apparently didn’t allow us to cross the road into our property 🤦‍♀️. Indemnity Insurance was only a couple of hundred pounds and solved the issue.

I think I’d be swerving that one. It sounds like the neighbours will be a nightmare.

Are these old covenants or new covenants the vendor is seeking to have added?
It makes a huge difference to how you proceed from this point.

Thank you for your replies.I believe they are new covenants set by the vendor.Is it possible to tell the solicitor that you do not accept them.Can they be removed?

If they're new covenants withdraw your offer, tell the vendor to jog on, and look for somewhere else. Do you really want this person as a near-neighbour?

Alternatively, speak to your solicitor. This is why you pay them. You can refuse any new covenants the vendor is seeking to impose, but they can also withdraw from the sale if the covenants are a red line issue for them.

They are clearly new or at least those that reference things like Airbnb are new ! The ones such as livestock may be existing.

Just go back to your solicitor and tell them you can't accept all these new covenants and they are unreasonable but you are happy to accept reasonable covenants.

It sounds like the vendors very much want to have their cake and eat it. They want to maximize the value of the land/house, built their perfect home and police anyone in their direct vicinity. I wouldn't proceed - they are going to be a nightmare to live next to. Actually I'm surprised they aren't going the full hog and trying to retain the freehold and sell as a leasehold.

Walk away

Thank you for all your replies.This really is doing my head in.I am still waiting for the surveyers report it should be back this week.I was amticipating possible problems with that,not the title.I have bought properties in the past,including a listed one.I have never had covenants imposed before.
The thing is,i am a cash buyer,we were just a couple of weeks from exchange.I do feel he is chancing his arm.I am really fed up that i shall have a bill of nearly£3000 for solicitor and surveyer to pay if i walk away.Money i could do without loosing.If i was renting,i would understand rules,but not for buying.Has anyone managed to get covenants lifted,and still maintain a civil relationship with seller.I do feel this has soured our relationship.My solicitor has advised to view again to check boundaries and house again before exchange(only viewed it once) but i feel uncomfortable being anywhere near the man again.Plus its a three hour drive.What a mess.

You are a cash buyer. Mortgage rates are going up. He will have this issue with any buyer so you are in a very strong position right now.
Just go back firmly and say that these are not all reasonable and you are prepared to accept "livestock" or whatever else you think is reasonable.

The Solicitors will do all the negotiations for you so don't worry too much. Believe me, the vendor is lucky to have you !

Thank you nevynevster for those kind words.I have to say i feel completely out of my depth here.Why are some people such ar..ss? Do you think he will be lording it over me if i do manage to get some removed and buy the property.I just want a quiet life.I can't wait for the solicitors to open tomorrow amd try and get this mess sorted....mind you,i still have the suveyers report to come yet.!!

It's also worth considering the longer term consequences- when you come to sell will you struggle to do so with covenants restricting the pool of people willing to purchase?

Anyone who puts odious covenants on a property they are selling will potentially be a shit neighbour. Walk away

For me personally, this would make me withdraw my offer, not because of the covenants but because I think they will be a nightmare neighbour and will probably think they still own the property and can voice an opinion on anything that happens even though it is none of their business.

Is this house your dream house? Or is it something you are buying to get by for now?

If the latter, walk away. If the former, be prepared to be bolshy and tell him to sling his hook both with the covenants and on an ongoing basis. You are handing over hundreds of thousands of pounds and he's treating you like a tenant who has a poor credit record.

If you want to try to remedy it, conveyencers are pretty diplomatic at telling vendors to piss off without it sounding exactly like piss off.

Sounds like he’d make your life hell, I’d cut my losses and run a mile from this, but then I hate people telling me what I can and can’t do.

I once viewed a house and was told there was a covenant preventing the owning of a dog as this house has been built on land where the owner had kept their farmhouse and had dogs themselves. I laughed and walked.

This is very unreasonable. I have bought two houses with a covenant attached, but the covenants were in one case stated in the sellers pack, and in the other came up in the searches. To have them imposed at the contract stage is odd.

I did once consider buying a house which like yours was surrounded by the vendors’ land. It quickly became apparent that they didn’t really think they were selling it, they wanted to control it as if it was still theirs.

Im afraid I would chalk this up to experience, and look for a property with fewer strings attached.

I am really fed up that i shall have a bill of nearly£3000 for solicitor and surveyer to pay if i walk away
This is the normal cost of finding out if a property if really for you. It's almost certainly cheaper than not spending it. It is not an excuse for not walking away from a bad deal.

Must keep garden tidy
Must not do anything to upset vendor
These as covenants tell you everything you need to know about any future than involves living in this property. You are going to be watched, scrutinised, criticised and threatened with legal action to enforce the covenant whenever the vendor feels like it.

Thanks so much for all of your advice.Not one of you thought it was acceptable which makes me feel that it isn't me being over sensitive.God only knows what the survey will throw up,that was done last week so should be with me this week.In a way now i am hoping it highlights a lot of problems.Then i can walk away knowing he will have a problem selling it to anyone else.What a arse....!!Back to the drawing board i guess.Trouble is,there is nothing out there.I had been looking for ages before i found this one.

Some sound fairly normal, others he's chancing his luck!

We have a 90 year old house and a couple of covenants on it - one is original and I can see it is from when the land was first built on. It states we can't keep poultry or pigs on the land! The other is within the last few decades and connected to the previous owner getting planning permission for an extension to house an elderly relative. This can only be used for family members and not let out ie we couldn't use for lodgers or AirBnB. Again, I think this is reasonable in an area where AirBnB has caused a lot of problems for residents.

Both covenants materialised once our solicitor got the seller's pack so we would have incurred some fees to get to that stage.

The rest of the covenants you mention sound crazy!

We have a 1960s house with poultry covenants too! Also we're not supposed to hang washing out on a weekend, needless to say I've broken that one a few times

House buying and selling is crazy. These sort of things should be in an information pack that anyone who offers gets very early on before expensive surveys, solicitors, motgage offers etc are incurred.
The seller sounds like he woul be a nightmare to live next to and would probably act like the house and gardens still belonged to him.

I

Restrictive covenants are entirely normal for properties and are widespread especially for new build properties. I work as a conveyancer and have done so for 30 years. These are new covenants being imposed by the current owner, however, you are at the negotiation stage, he can ask you to agree to them and you can refuse to accept them. If he is unlikely to get another cash buyer offering what you have offered at this time especially if he needs t he money to fund the building if his new house the. You may be in a strong position to push back on some or all of the covenants. The usual covenants are things like 'not to cause nuisance or annoyance to the neighbours' perfectly normal and acceptable, as are covenants to not have livestock other than domestic pets and no poultry (because no one wants a cockerel next door). If he won't budge on negotiating the covenants then it is a likely he will be a nightmare too live next door to so probably best to withdraw at this point.

Redastherose,thanks for that information.If he did agree to drop some or all of the covenants,how does that happen.Is it lengthy or/and expensive process? Why arn't the covenants put on the sales particulars? i wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole if i had known aabout them.Interesting,i just remembered that when i put in my offer,he asked straight the way if i would be having a survey.