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Original poster

Can I refuse neighbor creating terrace/balcony above my kitchen?

66 replies

Swallow34 · 07/06/2023 23:41

Hello everyone 👋
I didn't find similar topics online so I decide to get your help 🙏
My upstair neighbour's room window is just above my kitchen's flat roof (kitchen is single storey extension). The neighbour hope to change window to door in order to use the flat roof.

The extension was not done by myself so I'm worrying about the safety for both parties. Also worrying some related issues later on (crack on the ceiling??)

Do I have the right to reject neighbor's proposal as it's my property? Does the neighbour has the right to walk out from the window? Who's responsible for the safety? (Currently it's still a window. It's not designed to walk out but it's possible for people walkout onto the flat roof)

Any feedback welcome, thank you 🌷

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 07/06/2023 23:47

You mean this person actually wants to walk on your roof, maybe put things on it?Confused I certainly hope you have the right to refuse this, I can't imagine anyone having the brass neck to propose it.

Underminer · 07/06/2023 23:48

Wow! No, they don’t have a right of access. Check if you have legal cover on your home insurance and get their advice.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/06/2023 23:50

And yes, I doubt a flat roof is structurally suitable for this purpose.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/06/2023 23:52

Underminer · 07/06/2023 23:48

Wow! No, they don’t have a right of access. Check if you have legal cover on your home insurance and get their advice.

Or ... just say no.

pizzaHeart · 07/06/2023 23:52

i think you can check at the local council what building regulations exist about this.
Did your neighbor express his intention verbally to you / to someone else or apply for permission?

determinedtomakethiswork · 07/06/2023 23:52

Of course they can't do that! Do you own the place? If not set your landlord on them. If so, tell them to dream on.

pizzaHeart · 07/06/2023 23:53

And yes, of course you can say know.

HadEnoughSoTired · 07/06/2023 23:53

Most flat roofs aren't made for walking on so highly doubt there is sufficient structural support. I would contact your council and see if there should be planning consent/change of use required and if you can block it. Even if they don't know the answer they might point you to the right person who can.

Is there anything in your deeds (or theirs) for right of access/use?

MrsMoastyToasty · 07/06/2023 23:56

What does the freeholder say about it?

Snoooozzze · 07/06/2023 23:57

I'd say if you own the property then if the man upstairs wants to use the space above your kitchen that he currently has to feasible access to, he would have to buy the airspace for his use. I was advised a while ago that as part of the freehold on my property, I own the land and all space above and below so depending on what your agreement is, potentially this is something you might have ownership over too. I'd definitely seek legal advice about it

Original poster
Swallow34 · 08/06/2023 01:41

Wow I didn't expect to get responses in late night 😃 First, thank you for all your replies 🌷
My replies as below:

@ErrolTheDragon @Underminer Glad to hear your feedback. I got building insurance as I legally own the building and I'm responsible for it.

@pizzaHeart the neighbour express verbally. But I got a feeling he is checking few planning options...

@MrsMoastyToasty @determinedtomakethiswork I'm the freeholder 😂 @Snoooozzze mentioned about airspace idea, which I'll definitely look into. But overall I just want to say no.

@HadEnoughSoTired as far as I know it's not mentioned in the deed.
I'll have a chat again to the neighbour, express things clear.
If the neighbour insist to get access, I think we both need legal advice. I'll also contact council.

OP posts:
lemonaddde · 08/06/2023 02:09

What a cheeky bastard.

No you can't just build a terrace on a neighbours roof 😂

Original poster
Swallow34 · 08/06/2023 02:50

Before legal advice, is it fine just express verbally or is it better give a written notice through what's app or email...(to leave record?) What would you do?

@lemonaddde now it's very clear to me 🥴,glad I asked forum!

OP posts:
weirdas · 08/06/2023 04:03

No he can not use your property and he wouldn't get permission to either. (Assuming you own it it's not a communal area) I'd start with a email saying no permission given.

weathervane1 · 08/06/2023 05:18

OP, you own the space above your kitchen extension. If you could get assurances that the roof is strong enough, why not build a terrace garden on top and sit up there staring into his window... It's amazing to hear some of the batshit entitled ideas some people come up with.

Zonder · 08/06/2023 05:38

I think I'm missing something here. If OP owned the space above their flat then they'd own the flat above! I've lived in flats where there's been a terrasse out of a French window, and that terrasse has of course been on the flat roof of a room in the flat below.

wildfirewonder · 08/06/2023 05:54

I would speak to him first, and progress to written if he doesn't back down.

I'd say 'In order to use my roof as a terrace, you would need a legal agreement with me as the owner of the building you want to use and I would not agree to my roof being used. I wanted to tell you before you bought anything so you don't waste any money.' and see what he says.

wildfirewonder · 08/06/2023 05:58

Zonder · 08/06/2023 05:38

I think I'm missing something here. If OP owned the space above their flat then they'd own the flat above! I've lived in flats where there's been a terrasse out of a French window, and that terrasse has of course been on the flat roof of a room in the flat below.

It's different where something is built that way. Many flats have balconies/terraces above the property below, but in this case the op has an extension, is the freeholder of that piece of land and there is no planning permission in place for a roof terrace (which would be needed).

greenacrylicpaint · 08/06/2023 06:08

your neighbour (or you) needs a structural survey. most flat roofs are not constructed to be walked on and if the extension was not built with that in mind there is risk of damage.

our balkony also sits on top of a 'bump out' of the flat below. inorder to use it it needed a decking structure resting on the outer walls. and still has a weight limit, i.e. affects what size plant pot we can use.

LynetteScavo · 08/06/2023 06:12

I'd WhatsApp him what @wildfirewonder suggests, less formal than an email but it's written down so no ambiguity. I have a flat roof and just the cat walking in it sounds like a panther, no way would I want people up there.

I can see why he'd want to do this....but I don't think he's thought it through properly. Even if it was the worlds most sturdy roof he'd need to install a surround so no one falls off, and he'd be overlooking your garden. I'd be watching for him climbing out of his window to have a cocktail, now he's got the idea in his head.

ArdeteiMasazxu · 08/06/2023 06:29

There does exist in law the concept that one freeholder might own a property that extends over another property, it's known as a "flying freehold" and it is rare, and a massive pain for insurance, and reduces the values of both properties. Best avoided.

If you are the freeholder for both your own home and the upstairs flat then it's very simple. Even if they have the freehold to their flat it's almost the same.there is no need to involve the council or any 3rd party. Just let then know in writing that they absolutely do not and will never have permission to make such a change, because your kitchen extension was not built with the intention or the structural integrity to be used in this way and in any case you do not want and do not have any obligation to accept people walking on your kitchen roof. if they are their own freeholder the letter should remind them that their freehold only covers the fabric of their flat and does not include your kitchen roof. If you are the freeholder for both then highlight to them the fact that their proposal is to make major changes to another person's property which would be detrimental to you the owner and they absolutely must not do anything of this kind.

The legal advice you'll need is to verify what your options will be if they take any such action without your permission. Hopefully you would be able to terminate their lease for such a gross infringement of your basic rights to own your own property.

QuintanaRoo · 08/06/2023 06:48

There does exist in law the concept that one freeholder might own a property that extends over another property, it's known as a "flying freehold" and it is rare, and a massive pain for insurance, and reduces the values of both properties. Best avoided.

slightly off topic but nearly every single terrace house in my city has a flying freehold. Very normal here. Phil Spencer commented on it when they did a show here. Sometimes it scares the non locals but locals are used to it and does not devalue the houses here.

But yes OP, no way could be do this and tell him so in writing. If anyone can do it you can…..you could freak him out and tell him you’re now considering putting external steps up and doing it yourself!

StarbucksSmarterSister · 08/06/2023 07:23

overall I just want to say no.

So say no. Regardless of structural issues he's a real CF. It's your property, not his.

Zonder · 08/06/2023 08:08

Thanks @wildfirewonder

ErrolTheDragon · 08/06/2023 08:23

But I got a feeling he is checking few planning options...

Hopefully if he does this they'll tell him he's bonkers to think it would be ok.

Just tell him no, your roof wasn't built for that sort of purpose, and the potential damage plus people overlooking your garden would devalue your property so it's out of the question.