Do we proceed or not?

[IsTheOffDutyDoneYet]

Hi all. Posting for support/feedback, as really don’t know what to do right now.

We put an offer in on a 150 year old Victorian mid-terraced last month. We are living with parents, so no chain. Sellers also no chain. Have applied through Nationwide for 95% LTV. Homebuyers level 2 completed last week, we got the report through last night. The house was advertised as a four bedroom property, the fourth bedroom being in the loft. The homebuyers has come back to say:

“The loft is inappropriately used as additional living space. The conversation work will not meet modern regulation and may also be defective as there is no proper safe exit route.”

This is as well as other issues coming back. There are proper stairs leading up to the loft, no door and two velux roof windows. Nationwide has come back and said that due to this, they want either a) the original building regs certificate (it was there before the sellers bought the house 5 years ago, they don’t have it; b) a regularisation certificate or c) a signed statement to say we will never use it as a living space. Now we need that room as a bedroom, so c isn’t an option. I spoke to the mortgage broker, who believes that Nationwide is just covering themselves, and if we did use it as a bedroom we do so at our own risk. She hasn’t seen anything like that before come back that has to be signed, neither has the estate agent.

The other issues are high damp reading downstairs (we didn’t see or smell any damp), particularly in the chimney breasts where the old fireplaces were covered over, and the chimney stack which may need repointing due to some damage. Some flashing needs repairing too.. I’ve attached a picture of the traffic light system issues. The gas/electric ones are literally because the certificates weren’t visible. Some of the panes on the double glazing have some misting.

Looking for any advice if possible please, as it’s all a bit of a minefield. We do love the house, but we just don’t want to go into it and be stuck with something we end up regretting.

Thanks in advance.

Was this advertised through an estate agent? They're not allowed to advertise it as a four bed if one room doesn't meet regulations. Definitely contact them and discuss.

This may help you make a decision.

If there are no building regs, no fire exit and no fire door it should never have been advertised as a four bed house, we're those details on the estate agents property details.

Also you will never be able to sell it in the future as a 4 bed house unless you have the loft converted correctly

I’d be going back with a significantly reduced offer. They knew what they were doing. They knew how dishonest they were being.

You need to go back and ask for building regs, my parents was done 30 odd years ago and the council certainly have a record of it.

If there is no building regs, they can ask someone from the council to come and see what needs to be done in order to meet regulations.

The agent/solicitor need to be speaking to the vendor.

You either go back with a reduced amount to cover your changes or dont buy

We walked away from a house we liked for the same reason.

Not only does it piss me off that people do a half arsed job/not get it signed off, but to then advertise as a 4 bed when they know it isn’t takes the biscuit.

If you buy it, expect the same issues when you come to sell.

You’re effectively buy a 3 bed with quite a few issues that need to be fixed.

So, you need to reduce your offer to reflect the loss of bedroom, and the works that need doing (imagine this to be not an insignificant sum… look at similar 3 beds) or you walk away.

if you decide to go with it, you’ll need to satisfy the mortgage company then pay to have it properly converted into a 4 bed. Make sure you have enough to do this properly. It’s not just about “ticking a box” it’s the safety of whoever is sleeping there.

good luck

Have you paid the rough going rate for a 4 bed in your area? I’d definitely reduce your offer based on it NOT being a 4 bed property.

Was the house advertised as 3 or 4 bed ? Surprised at the estate agents attitude you can not use it as a bedroom if it is not safe.

The Nationwide seem to be doing this a lot! We've recently had the same issue. In our case the house is a Victorian terraced house and the 'loft conversion' is part of the original house (it always had a staircase and bedroom in the attic, as confirmed by the surveyor and the presence of original but now blocked fireplaces!). The Nationwide wouldn't listen to reason (the house was built in 1890 so of course there was no Building Regulations certificate!) and we wouldn't sign the declaration either. Bringing a Victorian house up to modern standards to meet current Building Regs would also have been almost impossible.

In our case (and of course, yours might be different if the loft conversion is a modern, later one so I'm not suggesting you do this!) we went with a different mortgage lender, pointed out the attic rooms but they didn't have any issue with them and sale completed.

The estate agent said the Nationwide have done this to several of their other clients too so maybe uts a new policy. We live in a Northern city where a huge amount of the housing stock are Victorian terraced houses with rooms in the attic so they won't be getting much custom around here!

It’s listed as 4 bedroom, on Zoopla and Rightmove, however in the paragraph stuff further down it does talk about the loft room being used as a fourth bedroom, so maybe this negates the whole bedroom x4 thing. The room appears safe, it’s been used as a bedroom by the sellers and the owners previous to them, it would just mean we take it as a three bed I guess but we could use it as a bedroom still. I’m just feeling really conflicted about everything. We really do love the house.

That is interesting Lemon, it’s a bit of a bizarre requirement. It sounds like they will give us the mortgage from what the broker has said, just that it is more to cover their own backs. I suppose going with another lender is a possibility, though means we have to start the process again sending everything off etc, and monthly payments wise it’s a good rate etc.

Is it worth the money to you as a 3 bed? Are you planning on it being a forever home? If not you don’t want to pay over for what will need to be sold on as a 3 bed

We had this with Nationwide. Crucially though ours was marketed as a three bed so we were content to sign the declaration (knowing we’d use the room anyway). I wouldn’t pay four bed prices for a three bed.

Nationwide are definitely particularly hot on this. They flagged it but missed some far more serious breaches of building regs, which actually caused us to pull out.

Yes, a bizarre requirement but the Nationwide person we were dealing with said it was no problem getting the mortgage and just to sign the waiver (and presumably use the rooms as bedrooms regardless), as apparently 'that's what everyone does' 🫤 Very annoying, as we didnt want to start the whole mortgage process all over again but that's what we ended up doing.

Hope you can get it sorted,whatever you decide to do!

Loft rooms are supposed to have a door or it’s not a “room”. If it’s a bargain and the only way you’d get 4 begins then stick with it but otherwise, walk and get a 4 bed home.

So what is the means of entry and exit to the so called 4th bedroom?

If you really like it I would go back to the vendor with the info and try to renegotiate the price. They will be expecting it - and also know that if they have to start again the chances are that they won't achieve the same price. Be brave and bargain if you really want it. Prices are set to fall considerably.

They will be expecting it

Will they?

The room is still physically the same as when OP made the offer.

The fact the mortgage company are covering their arse is not the sellers problem.

OP you can offer less but I doubt the seller is going to entertain selling at the price of a 3 bed. Somebody else will probably happily use it as a bedroom, rightly or wrongly.

Hi, appreciate this was some time ago now, but what alternative lender did you go with? We’re in the same position with Nationwide and departing if we try a different lender.

Hi, appreciate this was some time ago now, but what alternative lender did you go with? We’re in the same position with Nationwide and departing if we try a different lender.

We went with the Coventry Building Society, they did a survey and had no issues whatsoever with it, so the purchase went through smoothly after that 🙂