How to judge reno cost on a house you haven't bought yet?

[MumLass]

Having recently separated we are selling our family home. I'm looking for something suitable for me and the kids. Pricewise I have seen a few that fit the bill in terms of size and outside space but they need a big revamp indoors.

I'm talking walls knocked down, new kitchen and bathroom, or perhaps a garage to convert into a bedroom and ensuite. It's hard to know my house price budget without knowing the cost. Any wise MNers been through this and willing to look at a floorplan for me and take a stab at it?

It’s not as simple as looking at the floor plan unfortunately and I’d warn about undertaking a large amount of building work unless you have significant additional savings as well as the budget you think you need. I’m probably jaded though as we’re a month away from moving into our reno (2 months later than expected) which has swallowed basically all our life savings.

When we initially viewed we thought it would be about £15-£20k but the reality is we’ll not come in under £50k without a stick of furniture, no furnishings, etc. Costs have risen significantly since we offered but we also discovered a lot of nasty surprises whilst work was being done that couldn’t be ignored. We budgeted 20% for unexpected work and that was gone within a month!

Oh heck @rrrrrreatt that's scary but good to know.

Would you class this as a large amount of building work:

• addition of en-suite to master bedroom (plumbing present as bathroom is through the wall)
• New family bathroom suite, tiles and floor
• Knock through kitchen and dining room to create open plan kitchen/diner family room. New kitchen needed and relocation of boiler.
• Addition of sliding doors to said room (to replace current window)
• Conversion of conservatory to extension to make it part of the main house.

The general consensus is a ‘done’ house is better value than a fixer upper, usually.

I’d take a stab at 90k for that lot. I’m probably under though.

Ok, that brings it up to the price of a 'done' house nearby. Seems fair I guess, but more than I was hoping for :(

I'd say allow £150k for that. Nearing the end of rather expensive renovations here.

You could possibly do it for about 100k if you budgeted carefully, project managed it yourself and bought bottom end of fixtures and fittings.

I will give you an example we have a conservatory and to replace with an extension we got quoted 25k 2 years ago and prices have risen since then. We had a kitchen done last year and it's a small kitchen (2.3x2.9) and that was 11k all in. New bathroom was 7k 2 years ago, again we sourced it all and didn't buy budget but was still lower priced than we could have got.

You will also need a healthy contingency. I would say a comfortable amount you would need to budget would be 135k all in.

I also thought £150 but depends on structural walls and what's lurking under current structure

For that work OP, I would say £200k for medium to high end fittings. We’ve just had similar work done with no extension. We weren’t expecting to pay what it ended up costing us. Prices are currently insane but this is just the cost of works now.

Take the figure in your head and double it.

Done 7 fixers in my time.

From what you've posted I can't be sure without seeing the property, but as a novice especially your probably going to hit the £150k mark at least.

Things are different when you've done a few and built up experience/good trade contacts.

In all honesty I wouldn't recommend it in this housing market/economy. Despite my experience I wouldn't do one now.

When I started things were very different. There is so much instability around pricing of raw materials for example post Brexit for example.

I'd look for a middle ground of a house that doesn't need structural adaptations to meet your needs, but where you can add value by making cosmetic changes.

Refurbishing a kitchen with new doors/worktops/appliances can make a massive difference for example without starting from scratch.

Same with a bathroom. Where you don't want to go is moving plumbing etc but new fittings/tiles in the same pace can massively elevate a space.

Bizarrely I think these are the missed opportunity houses. Not a fixer but not done.

People think there's not enough to do to make £ or they are not getting enough discount to justify the asking price.

So I'd target these properties and negotiate like hell on the asking price by arguing it needs a new kitchen/bathroom/decor etc in the knowledge you can fix these issues at a reasonable cost.

thanks everyone, this is really useful

I'd class that as large, yes. Conversion of conservatory will probably take you into Planning consent and Building regs territory too. Knocking through as you are planning for the kitchen diner, usually means fitting steels etc, very expensive at the moment, plus the cost of the kitchen units and the plastering etc. Presumably also new flooring. Sliding patio doors? a grand or two, at least round here, so that's not a big deal. Bathroom and kitchen fittings will depend hugely on what sort you choose. It also depends a lot where you are in the country. Round here (NW England) it's at the cheaper end, both for local building materials' merchants and for trades- but even here, you pay more for better quality work. Elsewhere, in the more expensive areas, I'd think it could be significantly more. Unless you're very sharp and economical when buying fittings, and are willing to do a lot of the easier things, like decorating, yourself, I'd say you'd need to budget for at the very least 100k.
When I estimated this place (doer-upper), I first did a rough check on estimating websites for things like drains, roofs, etc.. Then I doubled it, because sometimes you decide it would work far better if you had a few extras, and you always uncover problems you haven't known about. We bought, Covid struck, and my doubling it turned out to be not a lot more than things actually cost on most of the jobs so far, though some things came in pleasantly under the online estimates (drains and clearing the garden) and we decided to blue more on the roof, changing a flat for a pitched one. Covid apart, I think I'd have got away with about 50% over the estimates on average, but I'm a great believer in solid contingencies, having had experince estimating in my job, as has Mr Bluemongoose.

I thought 150 too for decent but not high spec finish. We just had a 20sqm kitchen extension built for 80k, no plumbing or new kitchen. It's expensive to get anything done these days.

Not in my opinion or experience. The best value IMO is a solid, run down but habitable house in the right location. Then living in it while you gradually upgrade , as much DIY as possible.

This is 100% my takeaway from my experience. The best purchase for your bank balance and sanity is nearly always somewhere with dated decor but good windows, walls, layout, etc.

This thread does make me feel a bit better though - our £50k(ish) actual budget has covered a rewire, new heating system inc radiators and moving the boiler, new bathroom, new (small) kitchen, boarding about 3/4 of the house and skimming it all, a new floor downstairs, a new roof and gutters, skirting and coving for the whole house, knocking through a partition wall and fitting pocket doors, 15 sets of steel bars to knit the walls back together, replacing a bay window with a door as it was falling off, new carpets upstairs, paint for the whole house, restoring 4 original doors and buying 6 second hand doors plus hanging them, and a few other smaller odd jobs.

We’re in the NW, did the full rip out and do lots of DIY ourselves and I’ve project managed it all. My brother’s in the trades so he’s doing our floors and kitchen and I’ve maximised on sales, FB marketplace and trade discounts plus negotiated with tradespeople (e.g you cut the concrete and I’ll dig the French drain).

I'd consider that a big project OP.

Another factor to consider is actually getting tradesmen. We have really struggled over the last few years to get people to even come to quote. Everyone is so busy. You need to add in extra time as well as extra money.

Also do consider how feasible/comfortable it will be to live in such a major project with your children. You may have periods without hot water, heating, bathroom, functioning kitchen......possibly all at once.

I've had a stage in a development I was living in where there was no floor in the bathroom and you could look up from the kitchen table and see the toilet!

Treble it if you ask me.

Whatever your budget, double or even triple it. Quotes are just so unpredictable at the moment. We're mid reno and our budget has exploded. We don't regret it though as the house will be exactly what we want once we're done.

Well the OP has said a ‘done’ house is 100k more than this house in question, and everyone else has said the work involved would be 150k +.

I would describe what you are saying as buying a tired house, as bathrooms/kitchens and decorating are general maintenance that usually happens every 12-20 years.

We've just emerged from a major reno project. Based on what we did (which was more than your project), I think it would be less than £100k, but not much less, although obviously area of the country and spec dependent! We had a very detailed second quote from a builder, allowed 15% contingency and it came in about 8% over quote so we were fine. We were careful to stick to suggested amounts for unknowns at the quote stage eg tiles. Getting builder to do replacement doors and windows has been a lot cheaper than using a double glazing company and was covered in the building regs inspections.

Building regs, structural engineer, steel beams all add more to the cost. Kitchen and bathroom don't have to be expensive to get a nice one, but it depends what you think is 'good'. We went with mid-range Howdens and local bathroom showroom - kitchen was £6k, utility room £1.5k, bathroom £5k for the units, sink/basin, worktops. Tiles were all under £35 PSM (quote had assumed this, we were horrified to discover how expensive tiles can be!). We went for Dulux paint in a limited number of colours to keep costs down.

There are lots of incidental costs that occur eg moving a beam meant a gap in the coving that couldn't be matched, which meant all new coving for that room or ripping it all out. Once you start moving walls there are knock on effects for skirting boards, coving, doorways, all of which can add up.

Previous advice would have been to take a builder with you to a viewing but I have no idea how you'd manage to do this now, unless you already know one well. It's difficult to get anyone out to quote for a definite project!

Were doing less than you ….

Old bathroom replaced
New kitchen going in
One wall coming down
Combi boiler and new rads all over
New windows

We hoped to do it for £90k , it’s looking doable but close ££££

Another difficulty is getting the trades in , we had to wait 11 weeks as the plumber had a work list that long

Its just DH and I at home , so we’re living in the dust and noise , I don’t know if that’s doable with DC around

You also need to consider your new current situation. After divorce and alone with the children even if you do a lot of the work yourself it will take far longer as you will struggle to find a time when the children are out of the way for long enough periods of time.

Literally no one knows how big the house is so all of the price guesses are just that. We have just completed a very large extension and renovation. It has been hideous and cost nearly double our initial quote.

I would get a QS to view and gove tou a ball park. They are notmally pretty accurate. Thats what i wosh we had done.