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Underfloor heating installation disaster - solutions?

10 replies

Flymeaway4 · 20/05/2023 07:41

We're having UFH fitted to a new extension. It's part of a bigger project, which will include new plumbing to the remainder of the house too, so a huge project. We have a family friend who's a plumber, but we avoided asking him initially, as he'd been a bit unreliable in the past (not his work, just offering to quote for stuff, then never getting back to us), but eventually did after showing about 5 plumbers around and all of them rejecting the work. Family friend agreed to do it and gave us a really good friends and family day rate too.

However, he (or possibly his employees, I'm not sure) has now laid the UFH and it's wrong. The plastic membrane is meant to go on top of the insulation, then the pipes, then liquid screed on top. They've laid the membrane on top of the pipes. Why, I've no idea?! I get the impression they've misinterpreted the manufacturer instructions perhaps. This means the screed won't run properly around the pipes, so it won't heat efficiently and also, the screed would effectively be resting on air around the pipes and will likely crack. We were meant to get the screed done yesterday, but the screeders have refused in its current state.

A few days on (phone calls with manufacturer and his screeder, by the sounds of it), plumber has now realised it's wrong (although trying to blame manufacturer). He's said the best solution is to take up the membrane and use it only on the edges, then spray a PVA glue and water mix over the remaining insulation and pipes in the middle. Plastic membrane is designed to stop the screed seeping out I think. So, does anyone know much about UFH installation? Is this a valid alternative method and will it work?

Ideally we'd get him to take it all up and do it again, but we need to keep him on side, given he's the only plumber willing to do the rest of the house too!

OP posts:
roses2 · 20/05/2023 07:44

No he needs to re do it. We have ufh and it won't work the way he has done it.

Fix it now whilst you have the chance. Offer to pay more if you really need to but you'll forever beat yourself up in the future if you.dont fix!

tanstaafl · 20/05/2023 07:46

Christ. 1000s spent on a massive renovation project and you’d accept a lifetime of useless expensive underfloor heating rather than upset the clown who tried to install it properly.

tanstaafl · 20/05/2023 07:46

Improperly. ( maybe I’m the clown! )

MikeWozniaksMohawk · 20/05/2023 07:53

This sounds like something your plumber needs to redo properly at his - or his insurers - expense. It’s his error. You don’t want to go with his bodge of a fix, have the flooring laid on top and then find it all needs ripping up and done from the beginning. That will be a much bigger job and expense.

midgemadgemodge · 20/05/2023 07:55

5 plumbers rejecting the work is a bit of a warning flag ?

Hiddenmnetter · 20/05/2023 07:56

His solution will more or less work- what he’s proposing is using pva to create a membrane to hold the screed in place so it doesn’t seep through the insulation and create a cold bridge to the slab underneath. Ideally of course he would have laid the physical membrane beneath the UFH pipes but it amounts to the same thing. More important: is the insulation on the slab laid properly? Has it been fit tightly together? Have any gaps been filled with expanding foam? Insulation won’t work properly if it’s not a tight, close fit.

as long as the screed is around the pipes the thermal transfer will work and the screed will be heated by the pipes. Has he laid the barrier around the edge of the room so the screed won’t touch the walls? There should be a fairly thick (half inch or so) rubber barrier that goes around the edge of the room to limit the screed as well. This allows the screed some room to expand and contract (as it heats and cools) as well as keeping it from touching the walls and transferring moisture/damp/losing heat.

Flymeaway4 · 20/05/2023 08:30

@midgemadgemodge why do you say that? Red flag for what? The work needs doing and we acknowledge it's a big job that won't be steady work. It's not for everyone, clearly, but that's why we have few options in terms of who's willing to do it. That is also why we need to keep him on side really.

If this solution really won't work then we will insist it's done properly. But that's why I'm asking, as if it's a perfectly good solution then there's no sense rejecting it either.

@Hiddenmnetter thanks for that info, really helpful. No issues with the insulation, that was done by my partner and he's meticulous. The rubber barrier around the edge thst you mention, is this different to the membrane? If so, I'll double check that's been done too, thank you.

OP posts:
C4tastrophe · 20/05/2023 10:59

The rubber barrier is not the membrane. It’s there to allow thermal expansion of the slab.
I agree with @Hiddenmnetter , the proposed solution would/should work.
What about a photo of the current situation?

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 20/05/2023 11:50

If this guy has already cocked up the flooring, do you really want to trust him doing the rest of the work?!

Hiddenmnetter · 20/05/2023 13:19

The rubber barrier around the edge looks like this: https://underfloorparts.co.uk/product-category/underfloor-heating-screed-perimeter-expansion-edging-strip/

the membrane looks like this:

https://underfloorparts.co.uk/product/vapour-barrier-25-metre-x-4-metre-100m/?gclid=CjwKCAjw36GjBhAkEiwAKwIWyQSTtomOS5CCPTAvZwH0TYC6eXIcDwBSB_JB1cXMZLTzTLxVEOIbWxoCdwMQAvD_BwE

there is I suppose one issue which is the risk of the screed having a reaction with the insulation foam…to be honest by the time he has ensured that he’s covered every square inch of the foam with sufficient quantities of pva he might as well relay the pipes…unless we’re talking a HUGE space- it’s not exactly rocket science and it’s not even that time consuming…

Underfloor Heating Screed Perimeter Expansion Edging Strip – Underfloor Parts

https://underfloorparts.co.uk/product-category/underfloor-heating-screed-perimeter-expansion-edging-strip/

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