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Original poster

Neighbours help ASAP - party wall!

29 replies

justasmalltownmum · 17/05/2023 20:08

Hello

Last week neighbour told us they are building an extension in the back garden to extend their kitchen living space. Asked to remove fence panels. We said ok.

We share a wall/ (terraces houses).. and a fence (which is theirs). The wall sticks out further into their garden then ours. Ours stops about 3 feet back.

Been out today to have a look:

They have removed fence panels, the concrete the fence slots into and one line of bricks FROM OUR PATIO.
They have then laid down a concrete foundation that is on their side and into our garden where our patio bricks have been removed.

Been to speak to neighbour. He said:
He doesn't know, he was at work.
He has planning permission from pre covid.
He doesn't need a party wall agreement as he is not building on the party wall.
He will make his builders fix our patio/ put the bricks back.

Someone with more knowledge, please confirm this isn't right?
They should never have touched our patio? They shouldn't have laid a foundation under it?
What do I do? Builders due back 8am

Thankyou!

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 17/05/2023 20:10

Phone your building insurance company immediately and seek advice. If they damage your property you may be liable.

LondonNQT · 17/05/2023 21:24

He needs a party wall agreement if he’s building within 3m of the boundary - they certainly shouldn’t have touched your patio without this.

Put in writing to him right now that you require a Party Wall agreement, as he is doing works within 3m of the boundary, and that he and his builders do not have permission to work on the party wall line until a PWA is in place. His builders will not be happy, as they’ll have to down tools for that area (could do work elsewhere), but they should have advised him of the 3m rule really!

Take as many photos as you can tomorrow first thing of your property and contact local party wall surveyors. Also advise your neighbour that you will require your own party wall surveyor (he pays) separate to his (I.E. not a joint surveyor). His builders will, of course, have to make good any damage done or the party wall surveyors can agree a compensatory amount.

Original poster
justasmalltownmum · 17/05/2023 21:34

LondonNQT · 17/05/2023 21:24

He needs a party wall agreement if he’s building within 3m of the boundary - they certainly shouldn’t have touched your patio without this.

Put in writing to him right now that you require a Party Wall agreement, as he is doing works within 3m of the boundary, and that he and his builders do not have permission to work on the party wall line until a PWA is in place. His builders will not be happy, as they’ll have to down tools for that area (could do work elsewhere), but they should have advised him of the 3m rule really!

Take as many photos as you can tomorrow first thing of your property and contact local party wall surveyors. Also advise your neighbour that you will require your own party wall surveyor (he pays) separate to his (I.E. not a joint surveyor). His builders will, of course, have to make good any damage done or the party wall surveyors can agree a compensatory amount.

Thankyou!

OP posts:
notangelinajolie · 17/05/2023 21:50

Doesn’t need to be a party wall for a party wall agreement. Excavating within 3 metres of your foundation’s would come under the party wall act. Not sure of the exact ruling on this but all the information you need is on gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet

The Party Wall etc Act 1996: explanatory booklet

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet

NorthernSpirit · 17/05/2023 21:50

As above poster says - you should have a party wall agreement in place (that they pay for).

The builder has a cheek removing part of your patio without your agreement and laying a foundation. They have acted illegally.

A party wall agreement is needed if you plan on carrying out any building work NEAR or ON a party wall.

Next door should have provided you with a Party Wall Notice and come up with a Party Wall Agreement in writing.

The following works require a Party Wall Agreement:

Any work to shared walls (party walls) between semi-detached and terraced houses (not sure if this is the case)?

Excavation works – or underpinning – to, or close by (within 3-6m), the party wall. This is why you need an agreement.

Would tell them to stop works & tomorrow find a surveyor who will act on your behalf. The other side will pay.

Original poster
justasmalltownmum · 17/05/2023 22:13

NorthernSpirit · 17/05/2023 21:50

As above poster says - you should have a party wall agreement in place (that they pay for).

The builder has a cheek removing part of your patio without your agreement and laying a foundation. They have acted illegally.

A party wall agreement is needed if you plan on carrying out any building work NEAR or ON a party wall.

Next door should have provided you with a Party Wall Notice and come up with a Party Wall Agreement in writing.

The following works require a Party Wall Agreement:

Any work to shared walls (party walls) between semi-detached and terraced houses (not sure if this is the case)?

Excavation works – or underpinning – to, or close by (within 3-6m), the party wall. This is why you need an agreement.

Would tell them to stop works & tomorrow find a surveyor who will act on your behalf. The other side will pay.

No notice or agreement.

Have told him by WhatsApp just now that we need an agreement in place and will be contacting surveyor.

He said no need builders will fix it.

OP posts:
Fizzadora · 17/05/2023 22:18

Go on to your local authorities planning portal and check the planning application if you haven't already.

Original poster
justasmalltownmum · 17/05/2023 22:20

Fizzadora · 17/05/2023 22:18

Go on to your local authorities planning portal and check the planning application if you haven't already.

I have.

It says Single storey rear extension with a depth of 6 metres, highest point of 3 metres

From 2019

OP posts:
Original poster
justasmalltownmum · 17/05/2023 22:20

Fizzadora · 17/05/2023 22:18

Go on to your local authorities planning portal and check the planning application if you haven't already.

What should I be looking for please?

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 17/05/2023 22:21

justasmalltownmum · 17/05/2023 22:13

No notice or agreement.

Have told him by WhatsApp just now that we need an agreement in place and will be contacting surveyor.

He said no need builders will fix it.

Show quote history

He is bullying you. Tell him that is not acceptable without an agreement.

Houseplantmad · 17/05/2023 22:30

Put in writing that no further work on your side of the build can take place until the PWA is in place.
As he is clearly an arsehole, if they are building onto your wall do not agree to use his surveyor for the condition survey - you have the right to appoint your own at his cost.
Do you know how the wall facing your garden will be finished? You can have a day in this as part of the agreement. He may just leave it rough and not finished nicely (as our neighbour tried to do). Do not put up with any crap from him or his builders. He clearly hasn’t considered you, so play hardball as it’s the only language he will understand. He will already have told his builders that you are a nightmare etc.
In any case, if anything goes wrong, don’t engage with him, go through your surveyor who can deal with his to rectify things, if necessary. This would also be at his cost.

SpaghettiSquash · 17/05/2023 22:48

I don't know if covid has changed things but I thought planning permission was only valid for three years.

Neverknowno · 18/05/2023 00:04

SpaghettiSquash · 17/05/2023 22:48

I don't know if covid has changed things but I thought planning permission was only valid for three years.

Correct.

OP your neighbour is not doing things the right way. Do not be bullied by him. Stand your ground.

minipie · 18/05/2023 00:17

2019? That’s expired. And as pp say he needs a PWA. He is one cheeky fucker and you can’t trust him further than you can throw him.

I would demand that the bricks go back as they were and then nothing further is done till PWA and new PP is sorted. Phone the council planning dept and tell neighbour you have done so. He has to send you a party wall notice and then you will be entitled to instruct your own surveyor which he has to pay for. Tell him you know all this.

Take photos of everything.

Be careful about appointing a surveyor before you have had a PWA notice. In theory if the work is going ahead there should be a notice and he should then pay for a surveyor appointed by you. But if you appoint one before a PW notice is sent, he may not be liable for the fees. Plus if he decides not to do the work, or can’t get planning, you’re then on the hook for the surveyor fees.

Banjaxx · 18/05/2023 00:44

eek! He’s a right piece of work, don’t let him bulldoze you. As a pp said, message him back and say that’s unacceptable until a party wall ageeement is in place. Phone the planning office first thing and advise them he’s carrying out work on an expired permission and that there is no party wall agreement and ask their advice.

good luck!

RosaCaramella · 18/05/2023 01:29

I’d also be wary of the finish to the side wall of their extension. If they’ve already (chanced) laid foundations on your property, you can bet there will almost certainly be overhanging gutters or other bits of roofing projecting over the boundary. Apparently plans don’t need to show such details and if your neighbour doesn’t mention it, you’re stuck with stuff you didn’t know about and the council won’t want to know.

SmartHome · 18/05/2023 01:36

My dodgy neighbours tried to do exactky this and they most certainly did need a PWA. The PW surveyor made sure that they want back a bit so that the overhand did not extend into our property. The plans had it so no that their buttering would actually drain onto our land. Make him issue a PW request, refuse it and then force him to pay for your appointed PW solicitor. We said no to re.oving fenc epaneld as well so they had to build overhand.

AlmostGreenFingers · 18/05/2023 01:44

Planning has expired!! I’d be on the phone to the council first thing.

LondonNQT · 18/05/2023 05:36

What @KievLoverTwo said - the builders ‘sorting it’ is not good enough. He must cease works until a PWA is in place, nothing else will be good enough. Advise him that should you’re happy to contact to the council instead but that a formal complaint of this nature constitutes a neighbourly dispute and would need to be disclosed when he sells.

He will, probably, be able to get planning again without too much hassle (as he’s already had this) but yes, he actually needs to go through the process first. He’s probably going to try for retrospective planning this time round. One also wonders if he’s building what he actually got planning for…

If he’s being this dodgy about planning permission and the PWA I wonder if he’s doing building regs correctly (they’d need to visit soon to check foundations and again at certain intervals).

C4tastrophe · 18/05/2023 08:06

It sounds like they’ve been out there for a few days already, so you must have realised before last night what was going on, same as the neighbour saying he was at work? You can’t excavate then pour that much concrete in a day.
How long have you been in the house? You must have known about this extension beforehand?
Also maybe the council have a blanket PP time extension due to COVid.
In any case, you need the PWA as already mentioned if only to clarify the finish on your side, or even if there is any overhang.

8am, it’ll be kicking off by now!

fyn · 18/05/2023 08:14

https://communities.rics.org/gf2.ti/f/200194/3631077.1/PDF/-/5612_Boundary_disputes.pdf

If you call 0870 333 1600 the RICS have a boundary dispute hotline. They’ll put you in touch with a local, qualified surveyor (it used to be the partner who provided the advice at our practice!) who will provide you with thirty minutes free advice.

https://communities.rics.org/gf2.ti/f/200194/3631077.1/PDF/-/5612_Boundary_disputes.pdf

Original poster
justasmalltownmum · 18/05/2023 09:17

The work started last week.

Planning permission is from 2019 and still valid.

No other info received. They literally knocked on the door and asked to remove fence. That was it.

They put a sheet up so couldn't see what was going on.

Anyway, called council who said it is a private matter and to get a surveyor.

Called surveyor who is coming today.

Spoke to neighbour and builder this morning - who said they will fix it today. I said no, don't touch until surveyor comes. They agreed.

He does NOT have a party wall agreement. Thanks

OP posts:
anon12093 · 18/05/2023 09:42

Good luck op, hope you get the result you're looking for.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 18/05/2023 09:55

Well done for putting your foot down, not always easy when dealing with cheeky fuckers.

KievLoverTwo · 18/05/2023 11:08

Great job OP!

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