Probate and due diligence

[estateagentwoes]

Would be grateful for any advice.

Put an offer in on a house a few months ago. The EA initially said it was probate, then on second viewing, the senior EA said no it’s not probate, and that we needed to get our house on with them ASAP since the vendors are in a hurry and ready to go.
Which, obv, we did, when our offer was accepted, even though I wouldn’t otherwise have chosen to sell via this EA.

We got FTB for our house and everything our end and the FTB end was going well.

Suddenly, 4 months after our accepted offer, the EA says, super casually, ‘oh btw there will be a delay with the vendor’s property, due to the probate!’
‘what %#%^* probate??’
‘oh yes, it was probate, the vendor didn’t realise and we didn’t think to check.’

They didn’t apologise but I feel they have either misled us on purpose to get our sale or not done their due diligence. Our buyers have given notice on their rental and need to be out and obviously probate takes as long as it takes. The EA is being gallingly ‘Oh well, that’s bureaucracy for you.’

Should the EA have picked up on this? Wouldn’t preliminary checks show that probate needed to be applied for?

thanks in advance.

Yes, they should have checked. They would have to have verified the identity of the owner and done money laundering checks.

I'd complain in writing. They have eight weeks to respond before their professional body can get involved.

Thanks. Is there anything I can point to to back up a complaint? I have already told them by email that I think they should have picked up on this and they are not even acknowledging an issue.

I wouldn't trust anything any agent says. Ever.

You never ever want to get yourself in a desperate position to move, because that's when they (estate agents) and vendors/buyers get maximum leverage.

If it were me I'd be tempted to tell the Agent where to go.

When they lost their shit I would say, "Oh well. That's the property market for you" as they see 2 lots of commission flushed down the pan.

Have you got maximum info on the house to find out how long the probate process has been going on ?

I don't know how to link to a thread but there's one in Legal Matters, Estate Agent Acting Illegally, where someone has mentioned the possibility of reporting the agent to HMRC

This isn't a matter for HMRC, but the agents were definitely lying to get OP's business.

No way the vendors or the agent didn't realise it was a probate property 😂 Honestly, EA's are just the lowest of the low and really do have no shame.

Thanks.

the irony is: we were not desperate to sell and I had agreed to one weekend of viewings (the EA didn’t know that) and was quite happy to leave the house if it didn’t work out. We need more space but there is no huge rush and we like our house.

I only know what the agent has told me and they said at the start of April they just realised and were going to hurry up and apply asap.

The other thing is that the EA have claimed that the vendors applied for fast track probate. I have never heard of that but can’t find anything to prove it is a genuine thing! Was this another blatant lie?

I have seen people claim this on the web. I think it is more a marketing tool than anything else. Solicitors can claim to be fast tracking the process in the respect that they are preparing the info more quickly and putting priority on getting the submission in as quickly as possible, but once you are submitted I don't think there is any way of paying for a faster service - I may be wrong.

I would download the land registry data on the house and find out who is named on the deeds. You will be at least then able to search on the probabte register to see whether probate has been granted, and comb the local obituries to find out whether someone did in fact actually die and the whole thing is not a complete fairy story. This will only cost a few quid and some search effort. You might be surprised what you find.

I'd say so! If Gaspanic is right and it's a solicitor thing, it's likely to take longer too. Iirc, when a solicitor is used for probate, they have to wait a certain amount of time for any further beneficiaries to come out the woodwork. I applied for probate without the use of a solicitor and it was a fast process, despite it being during lockdown. My dad's estate was very straightforward though, so this would have helped.

I think the EA is misleading you. Have you the name of the vendor and have you checked the land registry? There isn’t a fast track service for probate and if you look online you will see various reports on the backlog. However, you never needed to sell through the same agent. I feel sorry for your buyers.

Hi

I have the name of the vendors and the title register. Nothing coming up on probate search but that would fit with the fact they are apparently applying now.
nothing on search for obits but the name is very common (think John Smith)

@LadyLapsang I do too, but they are in a better position than us since they can just call it a day and are in an excellent position as FTBs with their finances in place; if they do, I am giving up!

This is the second time I have bought a house and it was very straightforward last time. I know EAs have a bad reputation in general but these have a good reputation in our town and I didn’t expect they would blatantly lie to us like this.

Will your buyers’ landlord let them go onto a monthly rolling contract or do they want them out?

I am sorry your EA is being a dick. From a renter's perspective, I won't be giving my notice until completion for reasons like this, and have it built into my finances.

It's a bit naive of them to give notice. I guess if you are not often on property forums you may naively think everything will go well. I wish their conveyencer had warned them though.

We had something similar happen when we bought last year. We were told the house we were buying was chain-free (in hindsight, this wasn't actually written anywhere!) as the vendors move into sheltered accommodation was all arranged. Once our solicitor started digging around it emerged our vendor had to wait for probate to be granted on the flat in sheltered accommodation!

In the end it added 4-6 weeks to the process. TBH I'm not sure it was totally the EA fault anyway. The vendor was very chaotic and clueless so I can imagine not provided much in the way of information.

And, yes, your buyers were naive in giving notice before exchange happened. Or poorly advised. That's not your fault though.

Thank you, all.

@RidingMyBike thank you for saying it’s not our fault, the tone of a PP was that we screwed them over by choosing to sell with the same EA we were buying through I am not sure what we could have done differently here.

We only have the EA’s word for it and they say that our buyers ‘have to be out by XX date’ When they put their offer in, they said they were flexible and could stay in rented accommodation for longer if needed…

I cannot straightforwardly find obit details but I am not sure how that helps me in any case.

My main question remains: is there something I can point to that demonstrates that the EA failed in their initial checks? Regardless of the fact they have made up an ‘expedited’ probate process that doesn’t exist.

if anyone is able to help me with that, I’d be super grateful. Thank you!

the tone of a PP was that we screwed them over by choosing to sell with the same EA we were buying through I am not sure what we could have done differently here

I think you have taken that wrong. The PP was just pointing out that the EA was wrong to pressure you to list with them and they feel sorry for your buyer, who now has to wait. They weren't implying it was your fault!

I've said it before, but....
People ought not to be allowed to market a property until after probate has been granted. Until is has been, it has not even been legally established who actually owns it. So nobody should be 'selling' it. At the very least, it ought to be an offence for anyone- including a house agent- to market a property without declaring alongside the ads that it is a probate sale.

I'd ask your solicitor- a decent solicitor/conveyancer ought to be able to ask a colleague if they don't know themelves- most solicitors' practices have someone who will be dealing with wills and probate.
I was told lately by a will advisor at our solicitors' that some probates were getting faster now and taking just a few weeks, but another one she had outstanding had taken about 8 months and was still stuck, despite everyone's best efforts- in addition to the ownership question, this is why I think houses ought not to be marketed until probate is through.

Thank you @BlueMongoose, that’s very helpful