New tenant asks for maintenance work that is financially not viable

[Amadeaa]

My tenants moved in this week. They’ve asked me to undertake maintenance work which they believe are in my responsibility as a landlord, but these works are financially not viable. The costs would exceed the yield of a whole year’s rent with no guarantee that the problem might not reoccur within 6 months. I also don’t have this kind of money available right now. What are my options? They are at the start of a 1-year contract. I don’t think I can terminate the contract without any fault at the tenants side.
Should I offer them money if they agree to terminate the contract early?

We rented a house where two ceilings fell down! One from the absolutely crap en suite they got installed cheap and kept leaking, they refused to do more than check for leaks and mess about and it ended up ruining the ceiling and wall. The other ceiling has a crack in it, was just painted over to rent it out but we eventually saw it and got someone in and he touched it with his finger and it fell down all over our things.
The one before had an old boiler that broke down daily and half the heating didn’t work, cost them so much more in the end with emergency call outs and fines.

It’s a business. Just do things properly and don’t cut corners with repairs or work on your property.

@kitchenhelprequired I've lived in over 30 different flats and houses in London and South Wales and I've only ever had to wipe condensation from the windows in two of them.

Both of them were shoddily maintained rentals with landlords who didn't give a shit. In the second one, all of our clothes ended up rotten with damp, there were mice, and by the end there was water literally running down the walls. I spent almost all of my first pregnancy in that flat :(

"I had to use a window vac and dry window sills in the morning. I ventilated frequently and never had any issues with damp and mould."

It's incredible how many landlords say things like this about their own properties and then mould magically appears when the tenant moves in. I've seen this as a renter and a letting agent. Firstly, you're maybe willing to go to more time and trouble to cherish your own house than renters are willing to do for your property to protect your investment. If my landlord asking me to make sure to hoover the windows and mop up every morning I'd think they were joking. I use a window scraper and wipe the sills when I can but that's not always something there's time for. Secondly I think landlords have a bit of a selective memory about the times they've had to wipe mould off the ceilings etc.

There's a very unfair stereotype that tenants don't know how to look after properties, doing terrible things like having hot showers and drying laundry inside and not keeping the windows open - like the rest of the country throughout the winter then. I've lived in multiple flats where there's either no outdoor space or you're actually banned from drying laundry outside, and there's no tumble dryer. I'd love to know what the suggested solution to that is, force us to take everything to the laundrette?

Obviously some tenants really don't look after properties and refuse to make the least basic effort, but really landlords - do you keep your windows open regularly all winter? (I don't mean the odd 10 minutes to air, as that doesn't make any difference in things like bathrooms). What about when heating prices are going mad? Are you going to take money off my rent to compensate for the fact that you want me to freeze out the flat twice a day throughout January? Landlords a) cannot expect their tenants to go to extremes to look after their properties b) can't genuinely expect behaviour from tenants that they wouldn't do themselves.

Blaming tenants for not wiping/vacuuming windows etc is nothing more than fobbing off and victim blaming and exactly why some people have died from health issues relating to mould!

If the house is well maintained, well fitted windows, has kitchen and bathroom extractor fans, a fully working heating system, and doesn't have leaky guttering, etc., there's absolutely no reason why daily vacuuming of condensation or wiping condensation off walls would be needed.

The vast majority of time, it's not the fault of the tenant at all and we need to stop that narrative!

Landlords need to start putting extractor fines in kitchens and bathrooms, make sure they're wired in to operate when the lights are on (so automatic), replace old windows that are past their best (and yes, double glazed window surrounds and well as the glass needs replacing too after a couple of decades - they don't last for ever), get someone to clean out the guttering and downpipes every year to stop them getting blocked - and that's obviously just the basics in addition to any building problems such as dry rot, cracked rendering, cracked roof tiles, etc.

That’s dreadful.
Did your landlord fix the problem, clearly the hermetic seal wasn’t working, so you’d need new windows.

The Tenant has been there a week.

A week.

So they can't be held responsible for anything within that time.

What information were they given about the necessary vacuuming of windows and wiping of window sills every day before they took on the tenancy?

If they weren't informed that was necessary then the property has been rented out under false pretense

I didn't know such a thing existed! My house was built in 1871 and I don't get condensation, we have very good sash windows.

Its pretty standard for the first few years of being a landlord for the initial maintenance / repairs to wipe out all the profit. In my experience I have only started seeing a profit after the first two years. I had to do a new roof, new bathroom, repointing and a lot of internal damp work before I could market it as rentable. Also full redecoration and carpets. The costs add up.

Damp and Mould is a hot potato in the Social Housing world at the moment, constantly in the Housing press and there a no reason it won't be in the private rental sector.

My flat is owned by a HA who are absolutely shit at maintenance but after the latest mould related death of a young child, it’s the first time I’ve known them be all over it sending someone to look for damp in each of their properties.

I agree with those saying get a proper assessment as this 15k may be unwarranted and the company trading off the fact that damp, quite rightly, is a huge issue now and thinking you’ll pay up without challenging whether the work and price are justifiable.

Either way whatever problem is found to be it will need sorting. The last thing you want is a tenant suffering respiratory problems from living there and the implications for both them and for you. I’m sorry you’re in this situation. It’s a total bummer but it might well not end up costing anything like 15k to sort it out 🤞🏼

We had a guy come to paint the mould in a bathroom and he said while it wasn’t the right paint to start with, the extractor fan they had put in wasn’t good enough to get rid of the steam. So you have to get decent ones and many landlords don’t.

This kind of thing (and interest tax changes and expensive new checks even home owners rarely do) is why there is a massive shortage of properties to let and landlords are leaving the sector in droves. There are no easy answers and the state wants landlords to withdraw from the market so first time buyers can buy the properties.

My sons live here at home and let out a house to tenants. I pay for the repairs at this point as they have only just stopped being students. So it has been interesting to me to see what a Victorian house repairs might comprise. we had some staining on bathroom ceiling above bath. I got a local company to go in and repoint/ put flashing around the chimney above and then paint in stages the ceiling including anti damp paint. That was about £2000. After that a slight stain continued but the tenant who is very practical and we get on well was happy to paint over that one last time with paint she had and it all seems fine now.

We also had a damp stain inside a downstairs room briefly from some issue of water outside so a company externally did those works and that cost about £1600 about 18 months before the latest one above.

In other words it can be quite expensive. In fact obviously given the changes the state has made to profitability of lettings it is likely my sons will sell their houses or move into them as once 20% or 40% tax is applied to the fairly low net rental income after costs there will not be enough profit to make it worthwhile even in years without letting agent costs of 1500 and in years without £2k of repairs.

You need to get an unbiased damp survey done to find out the cause of the damp that would be my first advice then remedy it. Your tenant has every right they can take you to court and sue you for inadequate living conditions if you do not remedy the issue. Read Section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 it is your legal requirement to sort out the damp.

In other words it can be quite expensive. In fact obviously given the changes the state has made to profitability of lettings it is likely my sons will sell their houses or move into them as once 20% or 40% tax is applied to the fairly low net rental income after costs there will not be enough profit to make it worthwhile even in years without letting agent costs of 1500 and in years without £2k of repairs.

I really hope this does happen. What the country needs is a lot fewer half-arsed, corner-cutting landlords like this, leaving it to Mummy to do the bare minimum of repairs and rely on the tenant keeping quiet and doing their own repairs for the sake of an easy life (with the constant threat of losing their home in the background), and a lot more professional landlords who do it at scale and understand that it is a business with standards that need to be met, laws that need to be followed, and costs that will be incurred.

OP if you are still reading, this is what I’d consider to make sure I’d really done due diligence before spending big on this :

1. that £15000 figure- where is it from? It has been said many times in mumsnet that if you invite a damp specialist into your home to do a survey, they are going to “ find” a plethora of problems that are expensive for them to fix. Are you convinced the cause is really as per the quote?
2. is it a flat ? who is the freeholder and could they have any responsibility for this?
3. could insurance cover it?
4. mutual deed of surrender. I had a big leak in my rental flat which started in a part of the building belonging to the freeholder. They delayed repairs and my tenants got fed up. I let them leave with no penalty before the lease was up. That got rid of a big source of stress, even though obviously I was getting no rent for a couple of months.
5. consider posting in Landlordzone residential issues forum. Good luck, I understand how stressful this can be.

You had no ventilation in the property by the sounds of it. An easy thing to sort out but many landlords won't look into it and think it's lifestyle.

No, sprayed the wall with the mould and said it was due to people drying washing with the window closed. All the windows are the same with the condensation between panels and furry on the strip inside the windows. I've always been keen on windows open but I'm obessessive now, especially as the bathroom doesn't have an extractor fan and only has a big window to open to clear the room. The ceiling was obviously painted over and is starting already to show black mould.

I was really ill last year after moving in, with asthma and chest infection Only going after steroids and antibiotics plus using a dehumidifier.

Its actually really really awful renting. I hate it, but as a single person with 2 dependents earning a decent wage, I still can't afford to buy nearby. Not even with 100% mortgage.

Are there air vents on the windows if there is all you need to do is open them up. I do the same in my house open the air vents on the windows and noticed a difference immediately. No need to open the window if you have air vents on them.

No, as I said in my previous posts, all previous houses have had vents and they are open 24/7. This house doesn't have any vents so I have the windows on the catch 24/7 for air.

Asphalt "I really hope this does happen. What the country needs is a lot fewer half-arsed, corner-cutting landlords like this, leaving it to Mummy to do the bare minimum of repairs and rely on the tenant keeping quiet and doing their own repairs for the sake of an easy life (with the constant threat of losing their home in the background),"

In our case we are not corner cutting in any sense. Extremely expensive repairs have been done almost instantly - we are probably best landlords in the country actually. However your point is valid int he sense that the actual owner - son - is not the one paying. In a way the tenants hugely benefit from that because there is a much deeper pocket available for repairs. We do all the repairs. The last job which was done by excellent repair men with who the tenant and I both know well simply needed a final coat of paint the tenant was happy to do not least because that was easier for her having had the men in twice already - once to do external roof work, then to do the special painting (possibly the 3rd time too once it had dried - final coat).

We have also NEVER had a tenant stay as long as we want! It seems to be the way of the world with London young professionals - they rent and then they move or buy somewhere. So every single year we hope tenants will stay.

Yet there will come a point when my sons will want to move in or buy somewhere else and sell up and the state is choosing to incentivse that through recent changes. The state can do what it likes but that has consequences. It is meaning there is little to rent in many areas but it helps first time buyers let. The people I mention above are hoping to buy this year so have gone on to a 3 month notice period and i hope they do manage to buy. The couple with child before them moved nearer family and where it was cheaper to buy so they left to buy too. Before that it was a split of a couple and one moved back abroad with child.

I of course take on board all criticism against a mother who has helped her children buy a first property although it is not particularly unusual for parents to try to help their children in all kinds of ways. The only reason in their case I did it whilst they were at university is because I have helped their older 3 siblings (at an older age buy a first property) and as I will be too old to get mortgage etc soon and I wanted it all over and done with when their brother moved out of one of those houses it made sense to keep the ownership in the family and let it out.

@Xenia

we are probably best landlords in the country actually.

You're certainly always great value for money.

No, that's right. There is no ventilation in any of the flats because it is a conversions of a Victorian property!

A lot of rental properties are from this era and were not built to deal well with modern double glazing and efficient central heating, exacerbated because this is a damp country.

People who own and live in Victorian properties know this is a downside and have to manage the problem, yet tenants must be treated with kid gloves and have thousands spent so they can live in a fug.

It's all very well slagging off accidental landlords, but you will miss them when they have all gone and all you have left are the big companies, HAs and crooks.

I live in a Victorian property, I have double glazing and central heating. I don't have condensation, mould or damp. If I did I would look for the source and deal with it.

People who own and live in Victorian properties know this is a downside and have to manage the problem, yet tenants must be treated with kid gloves and have thousands spent so they can live in a fug.

You don’t seem to understand that when it’s a business, there are different rules and expectations.

I spent 20 years renting. I guarantee you no one will be sad to see the back of the so-called 'accidental' landlords.

People like that genuinely don't understand that it's a business. They want all of the profits without adhering to any of the legal or financial requirements.