Side return plans

[Houseystuff876]

Hi, we are about to get plans drawn up for an extension into the side return. I live in a Victorian terrace with a living room at the front of the house then a dining room which leads onto a small kitchen. At the moment there is an old decaying conservatory in the side return. The idea is to knock it down and knock through to the kitchen and dining room. This will need two steel beams. This will give us one big open plan space in kitchen and dining room.

Where I'm stuck is I would have liked to add a downstairs toilet but can't see where it would go. The architect thought it was a bad idea building it in the kitchen space as the door will go straight into the kitchen. It's not essential but would have been nice.

The second dilemma is there is a chimney breast 2/3rds into the kitchen space. Do I keep it and make a toilet/ utility at the end or knock it down too? If it stays the doors to the garden will need to be in the middle of the rest of the kitchen so not central to the house.

I've never done anything like this and a bit unsure. What do you think? I thought architects would guide it all but it seems like he draws the plans of what I say more.

Any advice would be so helpful!

I've attached a rough plan

I might get rid of the breakfast bar and have a sofa or pair of comfy chairs on the right hand wall.

Or if I had kids under 8, I'd make a play zone there with toy shelf and play kitchen etc.

Nice ideas. Though my main request for the kitchen was to double our storage so we can add a dishwasher and much more cupboards space. It's tiny now. So I think the breakfast bar is actually storage with a benefit.

I do like your idea of the WC in that space. It's a shame there is a step down between the two rooms so can't put anything there.

I'm happy with the plan generally but my only concern is the space by the French windows not being wasted or feeling like a walkway : )

Even with the step down you can do it. Keep the floor in the wc at the same level as the dining room and it would work out fine.

I'd go with a version of @ineedanewnametoday and lose most of the dining room and have a table in the kitchen space. Presumably the dining will be quite dark after this anyway?

But only you know your preferences.

Dont suppose you have room at the front for a porch with loo?

I don't want to loose a room of a small house to a toilet and utility. I don't need a utility space. What's it for? I'm not an elaborate washer of clothes. Bung them in a machine then on the line.

I wouldn't lose original features in the dining room. I think you can get a toilet/cloak into the rear but though, where the kitchen is.

Your most recent plan is a really odd layout with the breakfast bar. The side return area will just be a corridor and it doesn't really make the most of the space.

Get the layout right first, then see a kitchen designer.

OP do you have young kids, or intend to have any in the future?

I have two primary aged kids.

The reason for not putting a cloakroom at back of the house is to maximise light into the house. Which was our number 1 priority

These are the architect plans. I haven't seen a kitchen designer

Another who thinks you're wasting the space in the extension. I would have it as a dining kitchen and lose the breakfast bar. I appreciate you want more storage but it will turn the rest of the room into an expensive corridor. A nice dining kitchen is sociable if you have kids doing homework, playing or if you have guests. It's somewhere nice to sit with a cuppa before everyone else is up etc. If necessary you could have additional storage in slimline cupboards on the opposite wall. Or we had a sideboard in another room storing stuff that was only occasionally used.

But think about what you are storing. Do you really need everything? I had a massive clear out and got rid of so many mugs / wine glasses/ bread maker etc I couldn't believe how much crap we'd accumulated.

It would look like this. Wrap around kitchen with dining table in the middle space. With skylights above the sink and extension.

The size of the space looks similar-its not big.

To put it in context at the moment we have a small galley kitchen with one small food cupboard and one cupboard for all pans/ bread maker etc. We need to maximise light and double kitchen storage space.

I am really minimal with what we have but the cupboards are awkward and too small.

I would like the dining table in the extension but it will use half the space of the kitchen. So just room for cupboards down one wall.

I could add an island instead of a breakfast bar which might open the space up.

Then put an armchair by the French doors.

Add shelves to the right wall for plants and nice kitchen bits

But you have loads of wall space, space in the dining room and you are just putting the kitchen pretty much where it is already?

The ones you show don't have a fridge or washer shown either.

I think you can do far better but need help thinking through other ideas. Your proposals are a massive missed opportunity.

An armchair by the French doors would just get in the way and be odd, imo.

How about putting the kitchen in the back area, but bringing it down the whole wall, swap over the French doors to the other side and have the dining table in that space?

Make the kitchen the whole room with units and shelves at various parts in it all, or a larder unit etc.

Missed opportunity for what?

I just want a lighter bigger kitchen. I asked for better access to garden, more light, sink by windows, double cupboard space.

I can move the dining table into the space but the have an empty dining room. I don't want a play room.

Any ideas to make it better would be great but I think the Mumsnet ideas aren't taking account it's not a huge space (3m wide by 4m) kitchen.

I can put units down both sides but i don't think that's going to look that great as it will be a wide corridor to garden

If anyone has images of something better I'm up for cha ging the plans but it's a small space

I wouldn't put an island in, you don't have enough room. Why not a dining kitchen? A breakfast bar is nice enough but not terribly useful, people just perch there while you're cooking.

Personally I would be prioritising a downstairs loo. They're so useful, especially with children. Our current house (first house) doesn't have one as we just couldn't stretch to a house big enough, but it will be a priority in our next house and I wouldn't buy anywhere without one.

When you say you want to bring light in, what are you visualising? That you cook in more daylight or that you're able to socialise with your family and friends in a nice, bright area?

Personally I think I might actually flip your plans round and put the kitchen in the dining room, remove the chimney breast to open up that space and then give yourself more actual living space in the light.

You could then easily put in the WC with a hallway door as PP suggested, in between living room and "new" kitchen.

Space as it is now. You can see why it needs doing!

The kitchen doesn't have direct light at the moment or dining room (it's through a lean/to) so more light is needed. So I want to have skylights and open up the back of the house

I agree with @wonkylegs that I would expect your architect to be doing more than just drawing up what you suggest. A good architect will think about how you use the space now, what you want more space for & work out the best, most creative way of doing that within the limitations of the exciting building.

It is worth spending time now getting as close to perfect design as you can because the process will be expensive, stressful & messy and you need to make sure it’s worth it! So don’t settle is basically what I’m saying!

I did it the way you are looking at doing it and now wish I had done it the way the first poster suggested. The middle space where you're dining area will be is too dark and we don't like to use it. If the kitchen was there we would have to use it and then have more free space in the lighter side to eat and hang out.

Just to say this is not a forever house so another 4/5 years. I'm not sure the cost of completely moving rooms around is worth it. We won't get that money back on the house.

But as we are here a few years I need to remove the leaking rotten lean to and open the space up.