When is too early to move out of London?

[paxos]

DD and her boyfriend have lived together for two years in South Ken. They live in a friend’s flat who moved overseas for work, but has now decided to sell it. They got to live there at a reduced rate (£1,500 a month). And anything similar would be closer to £2,000.

They are in their mid twenties. Dd works in consulting and her boyfriend is in finance. Over the next few years it’s a realistic possibility that both their salaries will increase a lot, or even just her boyfriend’s salary (to well over 6 figs).

They’ve been looking at the idea of moving out of London and commuting in from a commuter town in Kent or Surrey. They want more space and they want to get a dog.

My thoughts (and it’s just my opinion!) is that 25 is too young to think about a move to commuter land. I think they’d miss being able to see friends quickly, or the quick commute to work

God yes! I would only move once any children they may have are school age. If I didn't have children I would never have left London.

Way too young!

Can't they look at somewhere still within London but not in zone 1? There is a middle ground!

We moved out from zone 2 to zone 4 at that age and bought property the following year with similar salary predictions/expectations. We then moved again to zone 6 a couple of years later and now have a 4 year old. It depends where they want to end up - if they want to end up staying very central and want a comparable shoe box for millions then they should stay as it'll be hard to move back in whereas if they see themselves moving further out anyway then they may as well do it pre kids (if this is what they want) as it will be an easier adjustment if they're already used to a degree of commute. I say this as someone around ten years older who has friends who have done it both ways.

Some commutes on fast lines might not be too disimilar to their current commute and especially with more working from home they could enjoy a nice life. It depends how often they are usually out enjoying the nightlife compared to crashing at home. Unless they ask your opinion though they will just do what they think is best and either enjoy or regret it.

There's a whole lot of ground between living in Kensington and commuter land. Feels a bit one extreme to the other rather than doing what most people do and finding a middle ground - zone 2-5, on the tube, garden flat if the dog is imminent. If they really want to move out of London then have they considered working elsewhere and properly moving away as if they don't want to live here, it's a big drag to do the commuting when you don't have to for kids/schools etc. and you might as well save money and really enjoy the lifestyle benefits of a smaller city further afield. So I'd either go less extreme or more extreme. But whatever they do is up to them really and they can't make a mistake as they're young and renting and can always rethink. With just that zone 1 bubble experience, they just need to make some moves and find out for themselves.

Having a dog will limit their out of home activities - nights out, dog-care when they go on holiday. Or are they homebirds and don't go out much?

Places an easy commute to London are already expensive plus commuting costs. Do they work from home some days of the week?

Where are they from originally? Living in London just doesn't suit some people.

Getting a dog? So that it is left alone except for the expensive dog walker maybe twice a day? Or dog daycare. Plus evening dog sitter if they stay for drinks / a meal / event after work?

Personally I’d have been horrified if anyone had suggested I move out of the city at 25. But it’s their choice I guess, not everyone is the same.

I agree about the dog- I’ve already tried to reason about this. Dd works at home most days, and she definitely is a home bird. She grew up in rural Scotland so I think she misses walks in the countryside.

Her boyfriend is from India, and he’s been very shocked how little you get for your money. He grew up in a big house with staff so I think he sees living in a tiny flat to be a bit of a step down.

I have young people, they don't want to live in London, the one who is likely to have to work there is talking about living in Sussex and commuting - not everyone likes central London. When I lived there most people commented from the suburbs anyway, its highly unusual to live in central London, it's incredibly expensive

Agree for me it would have been way too young. At 25 I was still having loads of nights out, last minute weekends away etc. And totally agree getting a dog when you’re both working full-time in consulting/finance jobs isn’t great for the dog unless one of you is working from home most of the time.

But depends on what they like doing. I had friends who were very settled by their mid-20s; real home birds who were very into gardening, cooking etc. That didn’t happen to me until mid 30s.

Just seen your last post OP. The people I know who did move out of London mid 20s are still pretty happy and it was the right decision for them.
They are also all still (with just one exception) with the partner they had then too - so I guess being in a committed relationship makes a big difference too. Probably most people I know hadn’t met their partner by mid 20s.

@paxos
Unlike some posters, my DDs both work and live in London. DD1 travels within the uk for work and London gives access to the stations! Plus the other massive draw isn’t nightlife. It’s culture and friends. Museums, art, exhibitions, easily visiting friends, dinner parties etc. Being out of London means too much travelling. If they do absolutely nothing in London, then move out. Do they not have any friends they value in London?

Personally 25 would have been way too young for me. We moved at 30 but without any children and the constant train travel into London to see friends is a bit of a nightmare and people never want to come to us despite having a big house and garden and only being an hour from London.
In hindsight I think we should have waited until we had kids to move. Previously we lived in zone 2/3 and that was probably a perfect medium.

I’ve gone through many emotions reading this thread from ‘omg think of the house you could get in Kent for 2,500 a month’ to I would have killed to be in central London at their age, to something in between.

I always lived very close by in Kent and it was always a ballache having to leave at 11.20 to get the last train when my friends could leave at 1am and still go to work the next day.

I ended up living there til I was 37 then moved hundreds of miles away, and I do think that having a pretty hedonistic lifestyle for 20+ years meant I ‘got it out of my system’, almost fully. Loads of my friends still live there but I no longer get pangs of jealousy at the gigs, parties and exhibitions I can’t go to. We have a lovely big house with countryside views, little stress, and that’s the pace of life I like now (I am 47). These days I value a lovely home, savings and nice holidays over regular nights out.

I do sometimes miss the restaurants, but we are about to move to another countryside location near a thriving market town, and that will fix that.

That said, they could still afford to rent on the outskirts, have a thriving social life and get taxis all the way home on that income, if they want to to. They are unlikely to get someone reliable to feed their dog outside of London though. In the City there are so many folks providing this service that you can dump them if they are rubbish, absolutely not so outside.

I think the best thing they could do is lower their rent by looking at zones 3-4. Somewhere leafy yet affordable. I keep hearing Walthamstow is good these days. Living in Z1 is crazy with their potential income, if they make the right move to a lower costing area, they could be absolutely minted and pay a mortgage off in their 40s.

As @Startuplife said, Londoners won’t come to see them - in my experience - if it involves a train and not the tube/bus. 45 mins and two tube lines, fine. 1 hour and no tube, very very bad. I could count on one hand the number of London visitors I had over decades. I can’t say I blame them. They are always unreliable and bus replacement services are frequent and a PITA.

Definitly scope to stay. London will be more affordable when their salary increases and they could look to buy. We bought in zone four London when our salary allowed us to and it gives us best of both worlds - London (albeit not zone 1) but also a family area for long term. We are mid 30s though. No regrets.

Odd question
take age out of the equation

what do they want? What's their lifestyle? What sort of commute can they manage without losing their minds? What's it likely to be in say 2-5 years? Train services are highly variable atm.

going by some arbitrary age is no use.

I wanted to leave London at 29. I didn't because of career and family reasons, but if home working had been more of a thing....that said, if I could turn back time, I'd have left then. I made the best of the situation and now at 46, have only just scraped out, by one postcode. It is very different though and I find it helps my quality of life a lot. I can get away with going in once a month though.

i say this as someone who was born and raised in London and loved it with all my heart, my parents used to quote that "tired of life" thing at me!

i'm interested they chose the priciest bit but possibly with no links to the area?

Well it’s up to them isn’t it? Especially if they want a dog!
Stamp duty is expensive so in a way it makes sense to buy somewhere that they can see themselves in for a longer period of time. You don’t know their timeline for wanting to start a family etc (if this is even on their minds). It is their choice!

Renting is paying someone else mortgage, and with the recent issues with new build flats and cladding etc - you can see their reasoning!

Should probably add
i've mostky lived in zone 4

had a brief period renting a room from a trust fund babe in South Ken. It was a lot of fun, late night bars etc but we could walk back to the flat.

I agree with other pp. i see a lot of younger generation (20s) at my work renting in expensive but well known trendy parts of London, and then leaving London - no in between. There are plenty of pockets of London that perhaps aren’t so well known but are more affordable and offer a longer term life style.

Yes too young!! They must enjoy life, see friends and travel. From exp my boyf and I moved out too soon even when we lived centrally we just did stuff together not with friends and saved hard for a deposit . I feel sad a bit when I look back about all the nights out and holidays we could have done. We turned into an old married couple way too soon!

I moved from zone 2 to commuter belt when I was 27 and so did several of my friends. Have to say that we were all people not originally from London, earning good money but would never be able to buy anything half decent there, and most of us grew up in the country. After 7 years living in London I was very happy to move away and I don't regret it at all... having said that, if money wasn't a problem (sounds like it won't be for them) I'd probably have stuck around until I was 30 and then moved!

It is too young in one sense but unless you are getting opinions from those in their 20s, our experiences are irrelevant. It depends on their lifestyle but crucially the stepping up the housing ladder that we once climbed is no longer a thing anymore for those starting out in their careers. We bought a London flat in central then move to the London suburbs then commuter belt, just like thousands of our friends. But now you can’t build equity in a London flat like you once could. So the youngsters I know are going straight out to buy in the commuter belt. The London/Home Counties property market is now very different

It’s easy enough to buy in the home counties. Walthamstow is another matter! Very popular!

Two people working full time shouldn’t be getting a dog unless they work mainly from home.
But anyway, re London, yes they should stay as centrally as possible, but they could also move slightly further out and still be able to get to work easily and meet friends. When I lived in London my friends were scattered all over the place anyway so I was often going to the other side of London to meet up.