Selling a messy cluttered house !

[Kay286]

Whilst I know this is not ideal we’re selling our house which has tenants in , we served section 21 in November but they said they would try to see if they could buy. They can’t and it got close to eviction date so we agreed to allow more time we’d give a bit longer and revisit. We confirmed again in feb we are looking to sell. Estate agent went round took photos and placed house in market but it’s so cluttered and messy (this after asking to tidy !)
my question is … the exact same house as ours is on for 50k xtra it’s immaculate … would you be able to see past clutter and offer on a 50k cheaper house ?

Just to give a different experience - I did buy my current home from a landlord who was selling up and had started the eviction process with his tenants.

However, my solicitor carefully managed the process which was obviously subject to vacant possession. He was able to share evidence of the eviction process (which was already well underway by the time I viewed), and the tenants moved out a month before we exchanged contracts.

I suspect he made some type of financial inducement or 'encouragement' to the tenants to help and speed up their departure to meet my solicitors requests and dates.

It was actually a pretty seamless and painless transaction all round. The only downside was the tenants left the place pretty filthy and as it was still during strict lockdown, and with the landlord remote from the property, there was no end of tenancy check or clean enforced.

I got a good deal on price, perhaps because others were wary of the still not quite gone tenant situation. As a managed risk, I'd not rule out the same again in the future.

You were lucky it was “managed”. If a date for no fault eviction legislation is announced, then tenants won’t go. They will hold on. Landlords with a few properties or just one could be in serious trouble regarding getting their money out or moving back in when they need to. It’s even less of a business proposition to pay someone to leave as well as have to maintain a house that’s not been cared for. Anyone would be mad to be a LL now.

Yes, I think the guy I bought it from was getting out of the LL business ahead of what was looming down the track. This was in summer 2021. He'd rented it to these tenants for a decade at the point he wanted to sell.

I'm pretty sure he paid for the tenants onward deposit to guarantee their agreement to move out. (They actually moved just around the corner, a minutes walk away, into another rented property.)

I was a buyer purchasing without a mortgage who could stay where I was and not complete if the vacant possession hadn't been achieved. I appreciate that's not a particularly common scenario.

I just want to say that I don’t think there shouldn’t be homes to rent. I do think social housing needs to increase.

You’ve been very naive. Hopefully this thread will have shown you that you need to treat it like the business it is, since you’ve been presumably getting good rent on it.
To answer your question, I would be more interested in an immaculate house with no tenants in even at 50k more.
Your house as it is will be almost impossible to sell. And your tenants are under no obligation to keep your house tidy or even to allow viewings.

My last house had tenants and whilst the house was in decent condition they left alot of rubbish and had wires everywhere.

I would never touch anything with tenants again. And a cluttered home will not give you a premium price.

As a LL who has steadily been exiting for 4 years, l alway give notice and wait until tenants have vacated.
Then redecorate, stage furniture and furnishings and try and sell fast.
I think you will take a substantial hit on price if you continue trying to sell with tenants in a messy house.

You need to get a possession order from the courts, your agent should be able to assist you with that. Legally the tenant does not have to leave until you have a PO and can await bailiffs if they choose to do so or if they are relying on the local authority assisting them with housing. If you are selling with vacant possession then that's exactly what it means, no tenants left as sitting tenants and nothing left that isn't included in the contract. It's best if landlords sort out vacant possession prior to marketing the property as it can often be difficult to ensure a tenant leaves prior to the sale, and then you have a different can of worms.

I would have a frank conversation with your agent about the real position of where you need to be on price to make it appealing to an investor to buy - with the tenants included in the sale. Yes you will have to reduce further but when you consider the cost of removing them, refreshing the property, re-marketing and the time and cost in a falling market - it might make sense. Investors are still buying the right properties and often are cash. You just need to price it right to get them interested.
If that's not an option that works for you then as others point out you need to get the property vacant and presentable. Don't hang about though because the value is only going one way, this year at least, and that's not up..

The problem with selling with tenants in place (and messy ones) is that you refund your potential market a great deal. It is best to get the house back and tidy it up for sale. A reasonable price will get more than investors interested. An article in my paper says 100,000 investors a year might pull out of buy to let in the next 5 years based on current sales. This isn’t a growing sector.

Another section 21 is being issued. Once empty we will return and clear up and make it more presentable. We have a viewing tomorrow but obv after feedback here not expecting much from it

Woah. Could you link source for that?

@ThankmelaterOkay
I'd guess this is the article:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/17/landlords-to-leave-buy-to-let-as-baby-boomers-retire/

The pertinent paragraph below, but if you don't have access to the telegraph you may find other references by searching for Hamptons landlords research retirement

"Around 140,000 landlords sold up and left the market last year after reaching retirement age, according to research from estate agent Hamptons. Almost 100,000 a year are expected to follow them for the next half decade."

Thanks. Very interesting.

I meant reduce your potential buyers with tenants in situ. 100,000 investors pulling out was a report by Hamptons. Picked up by the Telegraph.

Here is a bit of what was written.

Your s21 notice is valid for 6 months from service. If you served in November it won't expire until May.
If your notice is valid you could just issue proceedings as a back up, telling them they have 28 days to vacate or a possession order will be enforced.

If it suits you to have them in there for another 4-5 months then by all means serve another s21 but you are putting off when you'll get vacant possession.
It will be much easier to sell empty

I bought a flat recently and automatically ruled out any properties that had sitting tenants as I couldn't take the risk that the property may not be vacant when we exchanged. I can look past a certain amount of clutter but not sitting tenants.

You need to take down the listing.

Nobody will want a house with sitting tenants. You need to get them out before proceeding.

I've literally just sold a house with tenants in. House totally uncared for with a lot, a really significant lot of rubbish, clutter and house a bit of a mess (understatement!). I did sell the house for less money than what it's worth but I couldn't have covered the mortgage payments if I had got them out sooner. Tenants kept asking to stay but have left and I paid £2,000 for the house to be cleared and cleaned! So it's not impossible to sell with tenants in as some of the previous posts say.

I'd be honest with them that the clutter is causing an issue - use the 50k more property as proof - and say you need them out by XX date as you now need to market the property empty to gain its best price.
I will say though that that might come with it's own problems - I recently bought a property that I thought was a turnkey and once I completed and saw the bare bones it needed a deep clean and a full repaint (stains on the walls where furniture had sat and pictures had hung).

I viewed a house with tenants in. Never again. It was awkward like we were intruding and they made no effort to tidy up (but were polite). Each time we stepped into a room, we kept apologising for being there. Totally awkward. The mess and the feeling of kicking people out their home totally put me off.

You said it yourself - you sold your house "for less money than what it's worth".

I doubt that is the outcome OP is hoping for so she is better off getting rid of the tenants first then putting the house on the market.

Depends how much less you accept and the costs of mortgages and in my case rent too of where I live. Council tax on an empty property etc... all adds up.

@Boomboomboomboom I asked my letting agents and they said it had been rescinded , i actually explained to them I wasn’t aware of this I thought I’d only agreed to allowing them more time …while we got into new year and then would revisit selling. Which we did and now decided to sell … and asked what their leaving date was and they said I’d have to issue another section 21 ! I actually think my agents are maybe giving me the runaround and prolonging this as it’s obv not in their interests for me to sell….