Let tenants pave garden?

[ForeverGenX]

We have a rental home with an east facing garden. Our tenants want to pave the back garden, removing all grass. In summer the grass is lush but it turns into a mud bath for many months. They have a raised paved patio at the back and a slab path down the middle of the lawn. I want them to enjoy the garden but am reluctant to allow them to ditch all the grass. Is this mean of me? Am worried about biodiversity loss and also whether we will be able to reinstate the grass easily at some point if it is paved over. What can we do about drainage? Is there a more low maintenance version of grass in an east facing garden that is more eco-friendly than slabs?

The patio is to bury the parents under?

I’ll get my coat….

Is he that cheeky? He is at least asking! Usually MN will want to kill anyone who admits to being a small private landlord! Did not expect to find myself defending the tenant 😅. We did already change a working oven for them as it didn’t perform the way his old mum needed! It’s also partly cultural. Cooking takes up a lot of time for this particular nationality and especially for people his mum’s generation.

Ha ha @Darker 😅. Maybe I need my own extended patio at home after DH’s ‘efforts’ for my birthday!

No, no and no . We have similar back garden and yes, it’s not very exciting over winter but let’s face it- nothing is exciting over winter. I would re read your contract and notify them in writing that you are not allowing any changes in the back garden. You won’t be supervising it, you won’t know what he will use, and the most important- your back garden will become less attractive to families.
And I suspect he wants to do it cheap and then charge you for this or ask to reduce rent.

As someone who lives in a house, that we own, that the garden is a mud bath for many months. Don’t let them do it.
You need to sort the drainage issues tho as you’ve rented them a property with space that is unusable, unless you did t advertise it as having a garden!

the builder i know has all sorts of junk in his garden from client projects and a huge skip in the front. I bet he wants it paved to keep equipment and junk on it .

We had similar problem at our own house. We put this down
https://www.thegardenrange.co.uk/p/ground-protection-mats/rubber-grass-mat-23mm/?gclid=CjwKCAjwitShBhA6EiwAq3RqA-ZnJM6jDtWWvHaAbU5dbXb9M3C4LtNRvO7DxgC9VoEOO8mHQn1DEBoCKVAQAvD_BwE

The grass soon grows through it so you can't see it, and you don't lose any nature. But it is sturdy and you can walk on it year round without worrying about the mud as it gives a good surface to walk on. You can even mow over it if you don't cut the grass too short.

You can buy it from all sorts of places, not to pricey, and you just flop it down job done, no risk of shoddy installation.

He’s paying rent to use the house and garden.
If it is unusable for months due to poor drainage, you should be fixing it for them.
So definitely don’t let them pave it, but do sort the drainage out. Any landscape gardening company will advise and quote.

I suggest you obtain a free written quote from a reputable landscape company chosen by you.. The quote is to cover stripping , removing and disposing of the turf; installing drainage to handle the run-off from the patio; all materials, labour and VAT.

It'll be steep :-)

Then ask them if they still want to pave the garden (at their expense) and explain that it must be professionally done by this company, not a DIY bodge by tenants

I think they'll decline....

I would ask for flower borders around the sides to be kept.

It would be 100% no from me. I would ban any attempt to pave over grass. We need more gardens with grass not less. Helps hugely with drainage when it rains. If the grass is poor, it needs looking after to improve it so they can get more use from the garden.

I would also ban artificial grass!

This.

If your garden gets waterlogged a patio will also be waterlogged and cause drainage issues if it is not installed properly. It is not legal to simply drain run off onto other people's properties increasing their drainage problems.

I had a reputable builder replace a small one car tarmac driveway that didn't drain rainfall with a permeable block driveway. It cost 3k a decade ago. It would have been closer to 2k if they didn't have to dig up the existing hard surface. They dig a foot or so down and fill with appropriate gravel for drainage and then use a permeable block I believe. We've had no problems with it - but I can't see your tenant doing that size of job at their own expense. They may chuck a few slabs down that will still have drainage problems and increase the drainage problems for your neighbours.

I think looking into solutions for improving the use of your garden yourself is the best idea. If a job needs doing pay a reputable (experienced) builder to do an agreed and legal "proper job". No need for your tenants to do anything.

I think you need to try and maintain reasonable boundaries with your tenants -making structural changes to your property - no.

No fucking way. Unless they’re prepared to spend all the money putting it back exactly as it was when they leave.

Don't know why he would need planning permission for the wooden structure but then as it's not his house it's not up to him is it .

Just adding to the chorus - some water companies are looking at charging extra to properties that have paved over their gardens, because it’s so bad for drainage problems. So they’d potentially increase their own water bills and bills for all future tenants.

No I wouldn't. We've got a long term rental and have said yes to loads of structural stuff the tenants want to do. They really have made it their own in many ways, but I wouldn't let them take up the lawn. Replace the patio if they want but not to do away with the whole garden.

He sounds batshit. Who is the tenant him or his parents?

I'm not sure why everyone is saying you need to redo the lawn so it is usable all year rou d. My garden has thick clay soil and we don't go on the grass in winter months. My school and my kids school stop using the field in the wettest months. I can't really see that this that is unusual. What are all these people doing in the middle of winter on their lawns?

I think you should say no op.

Some sort of creeping ground cover might be more robust

i would consider a wood deck, but not paving over. A deck will kill the grass, but is relatively easy to remove. Concrete will be very difficult to change back.

It sounds like land drains in the lawned area would help. We had to do this as our local soil is heavy clay and when it's very wet with little evaporation, like in winter, the ground gets waterlogged quickly then standing water builds up.

Our land drains cross the grass in a herringbone type pattern and connect to a drain by the house. No idea about the cost of that as it was built into a general landscaping job, but it's done the trick. Next door's garden gets very squelchy in ordinary winter conditions and lies underwater like Venice when it's very wet (which is often, not this year but other years it has) but ours is not soggy at all.

We don't actually use the garden in winter but standing water is not good for the ground and in our case it actually reaches the houses, so really needed addressing.

The irony is he said next door had paved their garden and were very happy with it. I think we know why his grass is wet for most of the year! We are only talking about two strips intersected with a paved path by the way! It’s a small London garden. Bigger than a courtyard but probably only about 30 foot. Yes an aerator or some other sort of ground cover will be the answer and maybe drainage of some sort.

It does sound like the plot needs extra drainage. I'd also talk to a landscape designer about more robust alternatives to lawn - low perennials? Meadow type vegetation?

The bottom of my rented garden gave Glastonbury a run for its money for a good chunk of the year. So I reseeded it with grass seed for shade. It’s fine now, copes much better.