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Original poster

Paying builder upfront

20 replies

Kentlassie · 31/03/2023 21:17

Is this a red flag? Loft conversion and builder wants 20k upfront, another payment half way through and final payment 2 weeks after completion/ after building control sign off.

DH is panicking, but surely they need to buy materials etc. Same builders are halfway through an extension for our neighbours so I don’t think likely to run off….

OP posts:
Wednesdayonline · 31/03/2023 22:05

I'd probably only pay upfront with a signed contract specifying when the work needs to be done by and what the payments are for and when they need to be paid by. And then what the remedy is for you for breach of contract. Heard of so many people with dodgy builders who take the money, do the smallest part then drag it out for ages unable to finish until they ask for more and more payment. Of course your builder could be good as many are, but it's a risk if you get a bad one.

Kay286 · 31/03/2023 22:09

What’s the total cost ? If it’s a deposit for materials for an 80k job then possibly - but I would not pay the whole job up front no way.

TomatoSandwiches · 31/03/2023 22:10

Get an itemised list of what the first 20k is for and again for the second payment.
Personally I wouldn't be paying more than 20% of total costs upfront.

XanaduKira · 31/03/2023 22:10

Definitely don't pay the whole job up front but if it's to buy materials for a very large job, then it's probably reasonable.

Original poster
Kentlassie · 31/03/2023 22:11

@Kay286 65k total…
We’ve got a schedule of work showing when payments are due.

OP posts:
AdoraBell · 31/03/2023 22:12

I agree to get an itemised list first.

Original poster
Kentlassie · 31/03/2023 22:13

We’ve agreed to pay 11k upfront, partly for scaffolding and tin lid costs, skip etc and, partly for materials.

OP posts:
massivenamechnage · 31/03/2023 22:13

Totally normal to pay some upfront and then installments

motherofkevinnotperry · 31/03/2023 22:13

A third upfront is reasonable and not unusual on a big build. I'd always hold back a fair chunk until work is complete to the standard you've agreed.

Original poster
Kentlassie · 31/03/2023 22:14

By we I mean me/ DH…
We have an itemised list/ schedule of work.

Hopefully all fine and we are over worrying…..

OP posts:
Kay286 · 31/03/2023 22:14

Kentlassie · 31/03/2023 22:11

@Kay286 65k total…
We’ve got a schedule of work showing when payments are due.

@Kentlassie Then it’s probably reasonable, but definitely get invoice which itemises what you have paid for up front ! Also assume you’ve researched them and they have lots of good feedback and your neighbours are happy with job so far ?

Original poster
Kentlassie · 31/03/2023 22:16

@Kay286 yes and yes. Checked out social media reviews, companies house and spoke to neighbours. Neighbours (who we know well) went to visit some previous projects.

@motherofkevinnotperry @massivenamechnage thanks, I feel better now. Will definitely hold back the final payment (as suggested by builder) until building control sign off.

OP posts:
helpfulperson · 31/03/2023 22:17

I would make sure that the materials are delivered to and stored on your property. So if it does all fall to pieces you have what you have paid for.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 31/03/2023 22:17

I'd only pay 'upfront' if I was paying for materials only and it was payment on delivery so I would have control over them. So if they do bugger off you've still got the 20ks worth of materials for another builder to use. And only if there was some specific reason.

But more likely, it's horseshit. They'll have accounts and be on up to a 60 day payment depending on when in the month they order. There's no need for you to give them money for them to be able to buy the materials. If they're not able to have an account or are on stop / cash on ordering then they're the last people you want to be giving money to.

If they want you to pay after materials are delivered, when they are due to pay the supplier, then that's one thing. But paying in advance would be a definite no for me.

It's also entirely possible they want your money to pay for your neighbour's materials that are now due for payment. In that case you'd basically be in a pyramid scheme hoping you aren't at the bottom.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 31/03/2023 22:19

Ah, scaff is slightly different as it's either there or its not! But again, I'd only pay after it's gone up.

Original poster
Kentlassie · 31/03/2023 22:24

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut it’s up! Tin lid and all. Work is due to commence on Monday.

OP posts:
StrongerThanYouTh1nk · 31/03/2023 22:30

All reasonable as long as there is a contract of the full job and also what the £20k will cover - which you say you have.

Builders take risks too, if they order materials and then find out you are not able to pay, or there's some other issue (your requirements unreasonable, you're a nutcase, your neighbour is a nutcase etc) then they want some form of compensation for all the drama and lost time/opportunity.

lpeez · 31/03/2023 22:36

We paid scaffolders separately from builder and our tin lid was 10K inc vat and had to be paid for as soon as it was up so i reckon the cost is for that

QueenCamilla · 01/04/2023 23:21

I wouldn't have paid 20k upfront as they are part-way through neighbours extension. I'd wait to see the finished marvel before trusting.
What did the Companies house say - a lot of cash&assets to their name?

I paid a deposit once - the scaffolding went up but no works to be seen. The scaffolding going up is a way (for dodgy builders!) to make you feel like there is progress and make you think you're unable to sack the builders off. They "mark" the territory.
It turned VERY ugly me trying to get the deposit back. I did get it back eventually and also got myself a CCTV system.

I just paid 30% upfront for a full rewire. It's a large company, proper offices and receptionists, very professional, on time for appointments, nothing too much of a trouble. And even then I won't believe it until I see it - my new electrics!

BlueMongoose · 03/04/2023 15:38

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 31/03/2023 22:17

I'd only pay 'upfront' if I was paying for materials only and it was payment on delivery so I would have control over them. So if they do bugger off you've still got the 20ks worth of materials for another builder to use. And only if there was some specific reason.

But more likely, it's horseshit. They'll have accounts and be on up to a 60 day payment depending on when in the month they order. There's no need for you to give them money for them to be able to buy the materials. If they're not able to have an account or are on stop / cash on ordering then they're the last people you want to be giving money to.

If they want you to pay after materials are delivered, when they are due to pay the supplier, then that's one thing. But paying in advance would be a definite no for me.

It's also entirely possible they want your money to pay for your neighbour's materials that are now due for payment. In that case you'd basically be in a pyramid scheme hoping you aren't at the bottom.

That is unreasonable. A third upfront would be perfectly fair- they can't come back and take their work away if a customer rats on their side of the payments. Both sides need protection.
In my old job ( not building) I used to say 1/3 upfront, 1/3 when the job was well in hand and we were all happpy with how it was going, and 1/3 at the end when the client was satisfied. First third was materials, second wages and other costs, and only when I was paid the last third did I get my 'wages'.

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