Help - I suspect estate agent hasn't told seller of our offer

[barking]

Hi - just wondering what to do....
We've been looking for 6 months and a house we missed has just come back on the market after previous buyers dropping out.

When we viewed, agent said seller is really keen to sell, (it's empty), our first offer was refused, I put in second offer 9am this morning 5k below asking price, and the people buying ours are cash buyers. I've checked our mortgage is portable so just need valuation to get banks approval.

Phoned estate agent 5 times and he keeps stalling, saying he can't get hold of seller, then later said he would try phoning, then said he knows what the seller will say - which is they want to wait a while to let there be other viewings.

Arghhh! I really don't want to lose this house, what are they waiting for? Can I report them? Should I go in in person to get a better response? Feel like this is psychogical warfare and I don't know the rules - don't want to p*ss estate agent off, but feel like he's hiding something.

Is there a way I can contact seller directly?
Help help help

Morning barking, BWL, mymama et al

This is your morning pep talk:

1. Speak to a mortgage broker and see if they would be able to offer a workable alternative.

2. Don't Panic

3. Remember you are likely to be offering more £ than anybody who could proceed unencumbered by a mortgage. This will ultimately be appealing to Vendor of Dream House.

4. Deep breathes.....

5. Vendor wants it all resolved quickly however he will be aware that he is going to have problems given the nature of the construction and has to factor this in so try to stick to timescale but don't chew your own foot off with the worry of this. Vendor would be crackers to pull plug on you and go back to start again.

7)Resist the temptation to panic....

8. If you get a favourable response from a broker instruct an Estate Agent and quickly. If this is to be given a realistic chance of moving ahead you need to be under offer and E/A are best placed to get you to this position.

9. take up yoga....I am sure it works, I did Yoga once years ago....

10)......oh yes I am going on holiday in less than 2 weeks and will be gone for just under a month....will have internet contact but it might be sporadic so I need you to have made progress before then....

"but don't chew your own foot off with the worry of this"
Yep Smurfs - that's me! Thank you so much for still rooting for me - I was so down last night I couldn't see a way forward.

My youngest didn't go to bed till late so Mr Barking and I fell into bed too exhausted to talk it through without being very snippy with each other. But we did wake up at 6 and managed to try and work out what to do next....which went along the lines of 'It's up to you' as he flew out the door at 7. Anyone else have to make all the big life decisions in their house?

So I still haven't told agent as I'm trying to work out whether I kiss goodbye to house or fight a little longer.

We have our mortgage with the Abbey - who said they were happy to lend on non-standard construction....it just looks like they want a guarantee from the structural engineer that it's not going to fall down in the next 25 years while we have a mortgage on it and they want us to pay about £1000 to give them that guarantee so they will release the retention.I talked to a couple of structural engineers both said there are no guarantees.

One said he is puzzled by the concern as its nowhere near the coast so won't have the added stress of coastal erosion on the concrete - there is a block built extension surrounding the woolaway so again its protected. But he did talk about the potential difficulty of trying to sell it again in the future.

the other said are different levels of structural survey from looking and giving ones professional opinion to drilling down to the steel frames. I'm not sure yet what abbey wants as we still haven't got the report and nobody seems to know in the mortgage centre, which on the bright side buys us a bit more time.

I did think about the broker route but because we already have mortgage with abbey its portable so we didn't have to pay a massive application fee - just the valuation fee and the time limit also stopped us looking elsewhere.

So we have no buyer and we have to spend a grand to potentially get the mortgage having already spent £700 and still with no guarantee of getting it.

What/when do I tell estate agents???? I have thought I could buy time by telling them about structural survey (4 weeks is the waiting time) by which time I could try and get another buyer. I could tell them we have no buyer and beg them to put it on their books on condition we get the house while we cross our fingers on the second survey?
Or I could tell them everything?
I guess it will be down to the sellers when they hear...

Apologies for spelling/grammar/construction, I have a very neglected 2 year old that is very annoyed with mummy living on the telephone/internet for the last 2 week.

Another thought is do I try and ask if sellers will help pay for structural survey?

Agents have jjust phoned and I didn't pick up - I don't know what to tell them

I think you should tell the agents that the lender is demaning a structural survey because of non-conv construction. (a) this buys you time (b) it means that the vendors will be aware that if anyone else is interested, they are also likely to need same sort of investigations so it's not going to be a straightforward sale.

I wouldn't ask the vendors to cough up but I would make it very clear that the lenders are nervous and, perhaps, try to renegotiate a bit off the price once the survey is through.

Should say do the above if you really, really want this house because, obviously, you are still going to have to pay out for survey without having guarantee of buyer for your place...

Hello barking

I typed a lengthy reply earlier and then computer went mad! So here goes again.....

At this stage I would get more clarification from The Abbey as to exactly the guarantee they want before they will release the retention. Speak to whoever makes the decision even if means having to get it kicked up to a higher level.

Once you have this info. go back to the E/A for Dream House and make them aware of the conditions being imposed by your lender. As llll says this will buy you time and also make Vendor aware that it is not an average sale - which I am sure he is aware of.

Sweeten the pill somewhat by getting them round to value and market yours with immediate effect - 2 sets of fees from the same chain will focus their mind to keeping the deal together. It is time to start the ball rolling on yours and quickly. You need the people best placed to get you under offer and with a good buyer who will proceed and they are best placed to find you that.

I wouldn't start asking the Vendor for a contribution towards the St.Eng report/survey keep him on side. The time for negotiations is after the report is back and everbody knows what Hymn Sheet they are singing from.

Give this everything you have got - a couple of weeks of wading through crap for a good outcome is a small price to pay.

We got ours on the merket in a week - 10 days, got Dream House off the market before we had even done that, we broke the chain and vacated into a hovel for 8.5 weeks, went through a school appeal at the same time which meant flying back from our holiday and committed ourselves to a very scarey mortgage.

Slight hiccup with the lender needing a thorough survey is a walk in the park So chin up and keep on climbing up the hill...oh and can you do it all before I go on holiday please....

BWL...so that was you in Sainsburys....your hair is soooo lovely....but could you be less snippy when DD has already started to eat the grapes before we paid for them please.....

Evening barking, BWL and mymama

....any progress today?

barking, I was looking through the property threads and can across the poster DizzyDisco who's husband is a Building Surveyor maybe he could shed a little light on woolaways and the associated retention The Abbey want to impose.....hope this link works

No it didn't it is Timber Framed house in Property

Barking - I had let this thread drop...and had wondered how you are doing...oh, this all sounds so knife-edgy...my fingers are crossed for you, they really are.

Hi barking, BWL and Smurfs.

Don't have much advice for you as I am really confused about how it all works but I still have fingers crossed and positive thoughts for you.

Hi there I've been busy on that timber framed thread - great mind think alike!

Interesting about the caveats and insurance - I may be putting this to Abbey tomorrow.

I've phoned agents and have talked to them about survey. They seem to be trying to help. Mentioned getting their financial advisor to give me a ring as it may cost less to switch to a more relaxed morgage company rather that pay out engineers survey - I was very surprised they didn't shout at me about the time frame. I didn't get around to buyer issue but we have another viewing tomorrow.

The abbey are insisting I have this engineers survey when I feel I have already paid a surveyor to make the decision, not to sit on the fence. I have tried to appeal, but I'm not allowed to talk to him directly. The agent said he phoned them to try and get more information as he didn't know what to make of it!

Still flapping and fretting, not sure if its an albatross or dream house. I'll see what tomorrow brings.

Hi
We had a viewing today and she wanted it there on the spot, I felt quite flummoxed as she wanted money off there and then (said she is a cash buyer), said I will have to talk to my dh tonight. She is coming back with her dh tomorrow.

In the meantime I have tried putting the option of the caveat/house defect insurance with the abbey and they won't budge and say they need the structural engineers report and will make a decision then. He stressed that the surveyor wouldn't have put a full retention on the property unless he was very worried about it....

The worry is that we have a very saleable house but potentially moving to one that won't be.
Really don't know what to do. If it was just dh and I, it wouldn't matter - long term unless I get amazing job/lottery/inheritance it's going to be an albatross - a funny looking 60's woolaway bungalow but in a good peaceful location.
School run will be twice as long but figure if the children have to go by car anyway...?

Been in contact with agent and they put me in contact with their financial advisor. She advised to stick with Abbey and pay for structural survey as to change mortgage company could still not guarantee house and take up lots more time and money. We just don't have the extra money to pay for another survey (hence one of our reasons for moving).

So now we may have buyers but not the house.

Sorry for long ramble, I'm thinking out loud - when I try and talk to dh he deflects and starts ranting that he wishes I had never seen it, that I've changed my mind. I'm just trying to make the 'right' decision - just not sure what the right one is at the moment! At this very moment I would be inclined to stay put and say goodbye to all the stress of buying. I've spent the last 3 weeks on the phone and the poor children are being neglected. I feel it's all on my shoulders, but just so tired of having no money - is it just me or has the cost of living rocketed recently?

I saw the timber-frame thread and among lots of good points, MrDD said that this was a very expensive way of buying a plot. It sounds to me that the sellers of the bungalow are going to have a great deal of difficulty shifting it because of its unconventional build and appearance so unless they are prepared to drop the price considerably, you will be paying for a house you don't really want.

If you can sell your own home and you want to (you've outgrown it/don't like it/ area's changed) then do it and move into rented. Don't buy this house just because you think that the plot has potential because it sounds as if things are tight and building a new house is a wonderful thing to do but it ain't cheap.

Hi Lalalonglegs - I love mumsnet! Yes MrDisco did come up with some very good points.

Trying to think rationally (which is tricky for someone called Barking), we are paying over the odds for it which may have been a great PR campaign by the agents with all the other supposed buyers and the race doesn't seem so urgent as it once was, even with my mortgage company digging their heels in.

I have thought of lowering offer considerably if we decide to go for the survey, then rebuild idea could be a real possibility. Another awful gamble though if the owners turn round and say no. I'm no developer and hate playing any kind of games. The property is now in the hands of the deceased woman's son, so this must be really hard for him. I just don't want to mess anyone around and with each day passing the feelings of doubt increase. I guess that may be one of the reasons they went with us and the quick sale concept - less time to think!

Hello barking

awful day spent mostly at the hospital with DS so completly drained. Will catch up with you tomorrow

Oh no Smurfs - please don't worry about replying to my ridiculous housing drama.

Hope little one is ok and that you can get some rest tonight.
Thinking of you both x

Morning barking, amazing what a good nights sleep does for everybody DS is still suffering the after effects of C/Pox - irritable hip and knee joints means he is unable to weight-bear so I have to carry him everywhere....and he is quite heavy compared to DD Blood tests and ultra-sound have be quite reassuring that there is nothing sinister going on. We just have to wait and see.

Anyway I think I have caught up with recent events. My feeling would be that this is not going to get to an exchange within 3 weeks I think 3 months is more realistic, maybe more. We had our offer accepted last February and didn't complete until end of September. When speaking to the E/agent I would be minded to keep mentioning this fact i.e. that this is a complex sale and you are doing everything to move it forward. I would also keep them very well informed even if it is just to tell them about tiny bits of info. particularly info you get from your solicitor as they would generally not be privy to this.

The financing and associated problems of such a purchase are likely to be the reason the previous sale fell out of bed. So with that in mind I would take the pressure off yourself. A purchaser for yours does not necessarily need to be cash or quick as your purchase appears to potentially be protracted. Give serious consideration to instructing an E/agent as they will find you the best buyer.....(yes I am biased but, many E/agents work very hard and well on behalf of their clients I certainly did

Again with the issue of requesting a substantial price reduction. Time it carefully I know from my experience as both buyer and agent the furthur along the process you are the more chance you have of success as the buyer is then committed to you and mindful of having to start from scratch.....especially in a tough market as we have now. Bird in the hand and all that.

Anyway, chin up and I will keep checking to see how you are doing.

Morning barking....progress report?

Hi Smurfs , well we had another rollercoaster of a weekend, we found another buyer on the friday who wanted it on the spot, then after the weekend changed their minds as they decided they wanted somewhere more private.

We couldn't put it off any longer so had to tell agents and they said they have cash buyers waiting who had kept phoning up. So its gone

In hindsight had we known I would have gone with an agent. I felt very vunerable letting all these people around and likewise I think they were suspicious of it being a private sale and the speed required.

Just got off phone with mortgage company and the advisor thinks the Abbey never would have lent us the money as there were so many question marks over it (hence relatively cheap price). We also had to get a heating engineers report and an electrical report. The prerequisite was it had to be in ready saleable condition - which it wasn't.

My head is spinning from all the phone calls and decision making so I'm having a breather for now.

Thank you so much for all your help

How is your ds?

Sorry, haven't been around much recently (RL getting in the way grr).

Barking, so sorry to hear your news. It sounds trite I know, but you just have to believe that something better will come along. That certainly happened to us. We'd pretty much given up hope of living in this village as properties are a) expensive and b) don't come up for sale very often. We just lost out on a house that had been sticking due to it's location, then this one came up in a much better location and will probably be marginally less money once we have finished doing it up. And will be much more saleable which is always a nice thing to know.

Chin up!

Smurfs and others - Hi to you all too.

Sorry, haven't been around much recently (RL getting in the way grr).

Barking, so sorry to hear your news. It sounds trite I know, but you just have to believe that something better will come along. That certainly happened to us. We'd pretty much given up hope of living in this village as properties are a) expensive and b) don't come up for sale very often. We just lost out on a house that had been sticking due to it's location, then this one came up in a much better location and will probably be marginally less money once we have finished doing it up. And will be much more saleable which is always a nice thing to know.

Chin up!

Smurfs and others - Hi to you all too.

Hello barking, BWL and mymama

oh barking I am really sorry

If the news back from The Abbey had been positive I would have frogmarched you down to your local E/agents and insisted you get yours on the market there and then but alas they will not lend on it so the barking family remain where they are for the moment. Which from what you have said is a very nice place to watch the market and see what comes pops up.

As BWL says something nicer will come up and you will wonder what you were that keen on. When I was newly pregnant with DD we saw a house that I was desperate to buy.....nine months later after DD born and hormones had subsided I drove past and I couldn't see what I got so excited about!.....and then we found here which I adore we are very lucky. Don't get disheartened it is a good time to be buying and you could always sell yours move into rented and then pounce on a bargain!....probably best not to mention that plan to Mr barking at the moment

On other matters DS appears to be over the worst thank-you....but never say never at the moment, just when we turn a corner his temperature rockets or he can't walk. Off to S.A next week so hoping sunshine and adoring family out there will aid his recovery. I desperately need some sunshine on my back

Do keep us updated these things have a strange way of sorting themselves out for the better.

Smurfs x

barking. Agree with others - something else will come along. It sounds like your house is really saleable.

Well ladies, it has been lovely sharing this thread with you.

Smurfs, Feeling rather numb today but also resigned to the fact it wasn't a sensible house to buy when the market is wobbly and we have 3 children to think about.

The people who were previously buying the place we wanted did have a mortgage approved with the Halifax - so maybe they are more relaxed with their criteria? It would have cost up to £1000 application fee with still no guarantee so we got to the point where we didn't want to risk any more money.

My dh did ask them if they would market our house to try and keep the sale but they weren't interested and said there were cash buyers waiting.

We had another person turn up at the door this pm asking if it was for sale. I said we are thinking about it and took her details.

My parents have taken my youngest for a couple of days so apart from the school run tomorrow I am hoping to have the first day to myself in nearly 3 years - I shall turn the phone off and lounge in bed watching 'Spooks' eating all the children's chocolate wallowing in miserable bliss or is that blissful misery?

Glad to hear you ds is getting better - enjoy that sun!

MyMama, Barbarawoodlouse and Smurfs - A very big thank you for being all so lovely. You have all been amazing