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Original poster

Boundary line not clear on title plan

22 replies

Sundaycoffee · 29/03/2023 22:51

Hi all,
Hoping someone can give some advice here.
I purchased a ground floor maisonette last year with a very small back garden (if you could even call it that, more of an outside space)
There are two patches of grass which are divided by a path about half a metre wide. One side of the path is my grass and one side belongs to the flat above me.
There are currently no fences separating the 2 patches and I would like to finally fence off my back garden now that I can afford to do it.
In the title plan the boundary is literally just a thick line dividing our land where the path is. How do I find out whose "side" the path belongs to?
My "space" is very very narrow (less than 3 meters wide) so if it does belong to me it would be handy to be able to fence it off to include the path on my side of the fence as at this stage every inch counts!

Do I need to get a solicitor involved for the sake of half a meter of space or do I just put up the fence and see if anyone moans 🤣

OP posts:

Peekingovertheparapet · 29/03/2023 22:55

We would need to see the plan ideally to see what you mean, but in reality the line on the title plan is about a foot wide

Hamburgerandchips · 29/03/2023 22:59

If I was your neighbour I'd be mightily pissed off if you took the path over. If you discuss it maybe your neighbour would be agreeable to a fence down the middle of the path?

fyn · 29/03/2023 23:01

I would expect the path to be jointly owned. Even if it wasn’t, I’d expect that the other flat would easily be able to prove a prescriptive easement over the path.

Original poster

Sundaycoffee · 29/03/2023 23:03

Title plan is so unclear it's not even worth posting.
It's almost like where the fence would normally be dividing most back gardens there is just a concrete path there instead.
Should I just fence up to the path? Is the path mine? Is it theirs? or is it communal? But that seems silly as if we were both to fence up to the path on each side there would be a wasted strip of land in between our gardens.

OP posts:

Peekingovertheparapet · 29/03/2023 23:04

I can’t see a world in which you would have sole ownership of the path (even if the path is built along the boundary you probably only own half of it), ergo you can’t fence the path.

Fizzadora · 29/03/2023 23:06

I would expect the boundary to be exactly in the middle.

RosaCaramella · 29/03/2023 23:07

I’d imagine half the width of the path is yours, the other half your neighbour’s. You could replace the path with smaller pavers to make it easier for you to erect a fair boundary fence.
It would be a bit crap just to claim the whole path. Don’t be that neighbour…

Original poster

Sundaycoffee · 29/03/2023 23:08

Hamburgerandchips · 29/03/2023 22:59

If I was your neighbour I'd be mightily pissed off if you took the path over. If you discuss it maybe your neighbour would be agreeable to a fence down the middle of the path?

Yes would usually agree with this but the path leads to my patio and access to my flat from the carpark (being the ground floor) so I wasn't entirely sure. As they are the upstairs flat they wouldn't ever need to use it. Of course if it's both of ours that's totally fine, just isn't very clear! I'll try and draw a shit diagram😂

OP posts:

Clymene · 29/03/2023 23:10

Why do you want to fence it off if it's so small?

RestingRulers · 29/03/2023 23:16

Are there any neighbouring properties with a similar lay out?

Try looking on google earth to see if there was a time where the garden was split. You can look at old aerial photos on google earth (google how to do that)

Have you asked you Neighbour or previous owner what they know about the situation?

Is there anything written in you deeds that gives anymore details?

Have you looked at the planning application for the building if it's available? If it's a conversion does the plabpnning app give any useful info?

Original poster

Sundaycoffee · 29/03/2023 23:16

Just for a bit of privacy really! It's not massive but all I want to do is be able to sit outside on a sunny day, which I don't do at all currently as it just over looks the communal carpark at the back of the flats which isn't very pretty or private

OP posts:

Original poster

Sundaycoffee · 29/03/2023 23:20

Diagram attached. Currently neither bit of grass has a fence and the upstairs flat don't have any access other than coming out their front door and walking down (which they never do) their path of grass is overgrown with weeds and only about 2 metres wide

OP posts:

RestingRulers · 29/03/2023 23:23

Save yourself the aggro and use some movable garden screening. There are lots of different types.

Original poster

Sundaycoffee · 29/03/2023 23:23

Unfortunately not. The neighbouring properties are just straight up houses (not converted) so the gardens obviously havent been divided.
As we are a converted house into a maisonette they have tried to split what would usually be one garden into two.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sundaycoffee · 29/03/2023 23:32

RestingRulers · 29/03/2023 23:23

Save yourself the aggro and use some movable garden screening. There are lots of different types.

Really I want something more secure. I should have mentioned that my bedroom leads out onto the patio so it feels pretty exposed just having french doors to the outside that any Tom dick or Harry could access! I would feel much safer having it fenced off, particularly as I live alone.

OP posts:

Hamburgerandchips · 29/03/2023 23:38

So from your diagram the path it isn't purely for your access?
You stated they use it too? (Albeit through a weedy unkempt garden). Really should be discussed with neighbour or you could be getting yourself into a whole shitload of legal trouble/massive expense if they take umbrage

Timeisallwehave · 29/03/2023 23:39

Usually it will be owned by someone, if it’s not within your lines on the title plan it’s probably not owned by you. However what can happen is you have right of way, which should be noted if that’s the case.

Normally there is a deed to go alongside the title plan? For converted properties.

Original poster

Sundaycoffee · 29/03/2023 23:49

Thanks all. Will see if I can dig out the deeds then. The path is the boundary line on the title plan.
Hamburger yes I guess they could technically use the path if they wanted to but they always walk straight up the right hand side to the carpark. (Rather than cut across their grass) I use the path to access my back door.
Yes maybe best to speak to the landlord first of all as upstairs is a rented property so I doubt the tenants will know!

OP posts:

RosaCaramella · 29/03/2023 23:49

I can understand why you might want a fence. Excuse my rubbish edited version of your pic but is it around the patio and your grass area that you want to fence off? The bit I’ve marked in red I’m assuming is your flat?
Regarding access for the neighbour, I think you’d need to ask a lawyer or have a good look at your title deeds to see what rights the two neighbouring flats have to the paths. There may also be a restriction on how high the fence could be given that the gardens are currently open to the car parks.

Original poster

Sundaycoffee · 30/03/2023 00:05

RosaCaramella · 29/03/2023 23:49

Yep exactly like that and yes red/orange i suppose is technically both flats but mine is ground floor and upstairs is....well.....upstairs. The thicker boundary you have drawn is how it looks on the title plans in the sense that it is just a line between the two property gardens rather than any indication of the concrete path there.

OP posts:

RosaCaramella · 30/03/2023 00:15

Definitely compare the deeds re the paths - you can get a copy of the upstairs flat’s deeds online for a small fee.

if you and the landlord come to an agreement (if nothing is really that clear in the deeds) it would be worth formalising it via a lawyer so there could be no future problems with any new neighbours or if you are selling. I hope it is an easy fix for you.

TheTeenageYears · 30/03/2023 00:57

Check yours and upstairs deeds for any access rights which might provide a clue as to who owns the path. If that doesn't reveal anything then either email upstairs owner and tell them you are planning to fence and include path asking for any objections or get a boundary surveyor in to determine who owns what.

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