New build- subsidence

[badfurday]

Looking for some advice and experience on those who have bought a house with subsidence.

A lovely new build has come up for sale which is priced very well. I was suspicious and on inspection it has been underpinned. Subsidence due to tree roots. A couple of people stopped us after we viewed the property to give us the heads up about it.

Im not too bothered about it being underpinned, it should be fixed and we are planning to stay there for the long term. Kids young and at school and plan is this will be our long term home for at least 10 years.

My worry is, if it has just been underpinned and it starts to show signs of any movement, will this be under some sort of guarantee or will it be for us to claim in our insurance ( have done some quotes and they are coming out as about £700 a year). I spoke to the estate agent who claimed it would be guaranteed for 20+ years but not sure about this. We have sent a loads of questions off to the estate agent to get as much info as possible before we even make an offer.

Just wondering what peoples first hand experience is? I’m not looking for “run a mile” replies but informed, experienced replies. 👍🏻

I am experienced with subsidence and I know you don’t want to hear it - but absolutely run a mile. You’ll find it incredibly hard to get insurance. The guarantees aren’t worth the paper they’re written on and you’ll be constantly searching for cracks and concerns your house is about to fall in. You’ll be panicked about every plaster crack. There’s a reason it’s priced so well and you’ll find it impossible to sell in 10 years.

Is it a new build which the developers have had to underpin so soon, or is it an older house?

We owned a PUP. The warranty on the underpinning was useless as the contractor had dissolved the company despite still working in the sector. Insurance was always difficult. When we sold it 7 sales fell through before we managed to complete on a sale. It was exceedingly stressful. I can't recommend it. I too thought the perfection of the house would make up for it but it didn't.

Also, as a PP says - every crack also gives you a heart attack - even if you are a relaxed person like me!

It's annoying as underpinning does actually make the house a better buy in theory but that is not the perception amd I would honestly never want to live through the stress of selling it again. 10 years goes quick even if it feels like a while away now!

Thanks all. It’s a new build from 2019 (showhome)

I’m trying not to let me heart rule my head. And yes, I did say to my husband I’d be analysing every single crack or anything that appeared! I’ll await the reply from the builder/estate agent but I think my gut feel is to move on.

Good to hear first hand experience 👍🏻

We're dealing with a house that has subsidence and that will then be sold.

I've been led to believe that, even after underpinning, some insurers or mortgage companies may be wary. That said, if it was underpinned by the current insurers, they may be willing to continue to insure it.
You may have to live with not having cover for subsidence, but you should still be able to insure against other risks.

If it's been underpinned properly, you should feel confident that there's less risk of future subsidence than with any other house in similar circumstances.
There should be documentation to show how much movement there was over what time period, it should also cover the time after the underpinning was done (to prove the movement has stopped) and a surveyor should be able to interpret those for you.
Removing or topping any trees (if the council will allow you) should reduce the ground movement. (Ours was 40mm of vertical movement in 4 months and the ground goes up and down over the year, dependant on how much moisture there is in the ground.)
Cracks from thermal cracking (the house naturally expanding and contracting in winter/summer) are very different from subsidence cracks and far smaller. In a new build, you could quite easily expect to see hairline cracks in external render or along the lines of plasterboard inside and those should be nothing to worry about.

Having been through this, subsidence wouldn't put me off buying a house, though I'd be looking for appropriate pricing. However, show homes tend to be build in a hurry, so the fact that the foundations weren't done properly would make me question where else the developer cut corners. I'd also want to know who covered the subsidence: if it was an insurance company, I'd feel safer, but if it was exclusively dealt with by the developer, I'd be asking more questions, like what else was done to reduce future ground movement.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

The fact it was only built in 2019 would worry the hell out of me as the foundations should have taken into account trees and roots. Sounds like some corners of been cut so god knows what else has. Subsidence in general isn’t as bad as it is made out as long as it’s dealt with but this would worry me far more than if it was 1900-1960s house.

Don't touch it with a barge pole.

What happened to the tree?
It is odd that a recent built house had issues, but tree root subsidence is not the same as heave or other ground movement, so I wouldn’t be concerned. But as a PP mentioned, would be best if an insurance company did the repairs rather than the developer.
I doubt you’ll have any further issues from subsidence, but again, at resale time, it will be a topic once more.

We bought a house that was underpinned around 12 years before we bought it. Getting insurance was a little tricky although once the underpinning had been in place for 15+ years, it caused no issues at all.

I did worry when it came to selling but we had no issues at all and it sold on the first day for well over asking, and went through really quickly with no questions about the underpinning at all.

So it doesn’t have to be doom and gloom. I’m not sure I’d buy a new build with such issues though - our house was victorian.

To clarify, tree root subsidence can be significant. Trees have been sited as the likely cause of our subsidence and that has seen a 40mm drop of one corner of the house. But this is 8 or 9 conifers, all over 60ft High, and mostly within 30ft of the house.

Heave is upward movement and subsidence is downward. If trees are involved, they are likely to go hand in hand: trees take moisture out of parched ground in summer so it drops, and become dormant in winter so take less moisture out of rain soaked ground which expands and rises.

Our house is underpinned and we've had no issues with getting insurance or validating the guarantee. We bought the house 2 years ago and are expecting to be here at least 10 years so for us it wasn't a major issue - obviously onward sale will probably be more tricky when we come to it but hopefully we'll find sensible buyers like we were who understand that it's really not that big of a deal so long as the paperwork is in order.

Good luck whatever you decide 🙂

Is the tree still there OP? What type of tree is it & what size is it? Is there a TPO on it? I had a house with subsidence and the problem NEVER goes away. I'd be most concerned that it's a new build that's moving, this is indicative of poor build quality. No new house should be subsiding in 3yrs.

Thanks all for the relief. Finally had some more

Investigations
Investigations were carried out including a detailed analysis of the design and construction of the showhome and, at the recommendation of our consultants, a period of monitoring for a year from June 2019 to June 2020. The monitoring was followed by some additional trial pits. The consultants have concluded that there has been some differential foundation movement which is likely to have been caused by tree roots, possibly from unrecorded previously felled trees.

Remedial Works/Foundation Design
Remedial works have been identified for the property which have now been completed, this included the original foundations being redesigned and replaced with piled ground beams. All of our properties are registered with the NHBC and checks are completed by the NHBC and Building Control against Building Standards throughout the various key stages of construction alongside our own rigorous in house checks and procedures. The completed properties will be covered by the NHBC buildmark warranty in the usual way.

Bahh! Relief?! Replies.

So it was built in 2019, and immediately had a foundation issue?
Sounds dubious to me. Tree roots are very slow growing, especially when not attached to a tree!

I am only guessing, but I suspect they put in too shallow foundations for the ground conditions.
It would be enough to put me off.

Run.

Quite unbelievable that a house built in 2019 is having these issues.

Yes. It doesn’t sound good does it 🥴

I work for home insurance and deal with subsidence claims.
Subsidence isn't always the end of the world and once the trees are delay with the damage will halt, however, the fact this has occurred pre ownership means you wouldn't be able to claim for it as it's an ongoing issue and that in its self would be a real problem.
You would struggle to get a policy without extortionate premiums/excesses.
I would recommend to keep looking. I'm sorry as I know it's not what you want to hear!

OP, this sounds like quite a different set of circumstances to a traditional 'old house being on clay and needing proper foundations' type scenario.

Sounds like they basically made a mistake in the original design calculations/ground survey, and remedied it fairly quickly?
Was it the original house builder who conducted the remedial work?

Not sure I'd write those one off completely- I bet similar mess ups happen loads on new builds but are caught early enough that it's never properly recorded. I'd pay for the views of a professional.

Thanks again for the replies.

The works have been carried out by the original builder company ( Miller Homes).

Thanks for the heads up midnightblue. I did wonder about insurance. I got a pretty reasonable quote 🤷‍♀️

I drove past it earlier, it’s such a lovely house😳 🫣

Miller homes are a good company, it’s 99.9% certain that they have done an effective repair.
There’s obviously an element of risk, but weigh up all the pros and cons before you do finally dismiss it.

The type of soil is quite important. If it's clay for example then the subsidence and heave can be quite a lot and depending upon the season and rainfall. Personally I wouldn't go for it unless it's reduced heavily. Underpinning should reach down to the bedrock unless it's got raft foundations. Feels like this one has strip foundations?

It gets worse. It’s also had heave. it’s now under offer but wouldn’t be considered anyway. Thanks again for all the replies.

I think you dodged a bullet, there. I hope you find somewhere else- and stress-free.