Side Return Alternatives

[SideReturner]

Age old problem in this post Covid world! I desperately wanted to do a side return extension and have the open plan/kitchen diner with bifolds all across the width. Quotes have come back at £120k, so this is now no longer an option.

I am trying to create the next best thing, that will give me the room/space I need and also allow for open plan living.

I have attached the current floorplan. There is a very cheaply and badly done lean-to that I inherited in the existing side return. This currently houses a shower and toilet.

The plan would be to do as follows:

• Convert the lean-to into 2 rooms; a toilet and sink at the back, accessed via a separate door within the utility itself. At the 'front' section of the utility, house a separate washer/dryer with space for space for drying clothes and storage for tools, hoover, mops etc. Utility accessed from a pocket door off the kitchen per blue line.
• The existing dining room at the front becomes the living room.
• The existing living room in the middle becomes the kitchen. The walls with the green lines are removed to create a more open plan feel. And a new door installed where the short blue line is. A peninsula style or island style kitchen is fitted.
• The existing kitchen becomes the snug, with both a small sofa area and dining area. Current french door and walls removed to create space for bifolds per the blue line. Window and door to utility bricked up per the brown line.

The work above will cost c50k including kitchen/flooring, as opposed to £120k for the open plan side return extension across the full width. Keen to hear thoughts/wisdom from those who have faced this dilemma! Do you think this is a good idea or is it too much of a compromise and will affect resale?

So is the new kitchen open to the hall and the snug as one big room or are there walls in between?

There is a door (blue diagonal line) separating the kitchen from the hall, but I am removing the wall at the side of the stairs, so you will see the underside of the stairs. I am also partially removing the wall between the new kitchen and snug (green lines), so it will be a partially open plan.

£50k still seems a lot to spend for essentially shuffling rooms about. What are you gaining for all that upheaval?

Swapping over the functions of the current living room and dining room - and if possible / practical, taking out some wall between the kitchen and middle room would do pretty much the same, for a few hundred pounds and a tin or two of paint.

Thanks. Will you get enough light into the new kitchen, do you think?

A separate utility is a real asset.

Is there something wrong with the French doors or do you just prefer bifolds? As you aren't having the larger extension is there a need?

Suspect building regs might not allow you to have an open staircase in a kitchen area due to risk from fire. Or if they do, I imagine you'd have to get a costly sprinkler system installed through the whole house.

£50k is because of the following:

• new flooring throughout ground floor and decorating
• new kitchen (current kitchen has been in place for 30 years)
• lean to roof is cracked and damaged, needs replacing.
• new loo, utility appliances
• cost to remove walls and make it more open plan with steels and structural engineer cost.

Good point, it will probably be a bit dark which will limit what colours I can use. But with half the wall to the back living room gone and the extra light coming from the bifolds, I hope it will be just about ok.

The existing french doors are rotten, so I need to replace them. Opting for bifolds as I want maximum light coming in to allow some extra light into the middle kitchen. I also love the open feeling of having them pushed back and the wall open. I think it will make the room feel more spacious. Realistically, I would only be able to get 2.7m bifolds in, but should still give the 'open' effect.

Non starter then, as I couldn't afford the sprinkler system. Would perhaps just consider only removing the bit of wall 'under' the stairs if that makes sense, rather than the side. There is a small cupboard currently under the stairs, so that can be knocked through.

Looks like a reasonable plan.

i would keep the door from dining room (D) to utility and keep the window from Kitchen (K) to utility (but make it obscured glass). that will allow you to have the kitchen in a U shape which maximises storage.

and put a roof light in the utility (box with X) to bring light into the kitchen - that will make a big difference.

I'd definitely wall off the stairs both for fire safety and for noise / heat insulation.

Thanks, great ideas!

How do you think the plan compares to doing a proper side return extension and having that big open plan wide space at the back?

Honesty? I think I'd just replace the kitchen rather than relocating it. You can still do the utility. I'd much rather have the doors out onto the garden from the kitchen. Make what's currently the living room into the dining room (which is more natural as it is off the kitchen) and have your sitting room at the front.

My initial reaction is that I think the kitchen will be really dark, and I think the snug at the back will be a bit small. I would also always prefer garden access from the kitchen. And if you have the kitchen in the middle but open plan as others have said it will be a fire hazard plus cooking smells will go everywhere. Could you rejig the kitchen, and even extend the kitchen side out for a few meters to make it a bit longer, with a nice table and window seat setup in the extended bit with big windows and a vaulted ceiling or something?

glad you like the plan.

this version will always feel 'less good' than spending £120K on a full extension. but if you don't have the £120K, then this option can make for a really nice liveable house.

I quite like the idea of sitting by the garden, which is why I put the snug area on that side, but something to consider. This isn't my forever home, so saleability is important to me.

I've rejigged slightly to make the utility smaller and get rid of the entire existing wall that divided the kitchen from the back. It's a still an L shape return but less pronounced. Should help with the light.

My budget is very limited which is why i'm not keen to extend, but rather work with the footprint I have to avoid digging new foundations.

It's such a difficult decision, as if I perhaps wait 3 years, I may be able to do it for £120k. I just feel I got burned with my current property as I was waiting and saving based on a quote of £50k to do some works, and over the course of the last 4 years, that same quote has now gone up to £110k!!!

It's a 5 bed Victorian London terrace, so I don't want to compromise to the point where people would expect more from a 5 bed in the living space downstairs. It's not a particularly huge garden so I couldn't extend much further out anyway, perhaps just another 1 or 2m.

I think the new plan is better, but honestly if you think you can afford a proper side return in a few years I would save the money and wait. None of your plans will be quite as good as the side return as you haven’t got the height and width across the back. Hopefully building costs won’t keep rising, and I think the government has just relaxed immigration rules to allow more construction workers from abroad to work in the UK so labour costs are likely to fall. I think with any of your plans you could end up spending quite a lot of money and still not being happy with the outcome.

Also I wouldn’t say you got stung, it may be that the quote you originally got was wrong. We did a side return in London in 2011 and (with a new kitchen, not fancy) even then it was over 80k. It was lovely though, made a msssive difference to the house downstairs and we definitely got the costs back when we sold.

In the meantime, could you give the kitchen a mini revamp with a good declutter, maybe paint the units or replace the worktop and definitely replace the French doors, so you enjoy the space a bit more whilst you wait.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64969468

What is the width of that back room? My worry would be that with bi-folds you basically make a corridor.

My house is a similar layout and had the awkward narrow utility (though it was all part of a later extension so didn't have the structural issues).
We took it out to open the space across and I made what would have been the original back door as you have into a window opening into the kitchen above the sink to let more light in (already had the large opening you propose). Pitched the roof and put in a huge skylight. I have hidden the washing machine in built in units in its original position.

Is the lean to of construction that it just needs to come down?

I would worry that you are spending a lot of money to not achieve a huge amount. The kitchen layout with french doors looks pretty sensible for that space as it utilises the dead space either side of the doors effectively.

If it's five bed could you create a snug upstairs instead? If it doesn't suit you in the long run then I'd be replacing or tarting up kitchen with new doors and getting new flooring but not going mad (sorry!)

But I would still move the living room to front. The middle room makes more sense as dining next to the kitchen and perhaps open up the doorway so it's wider and more connected