To live in London flat instead of a house?

[theyf]

Due to career progression am hoping we can move back to London in the near future. Having been browsing for finance planning purposes and am quite depressed at the amount/ state of house we can get for our money, and unlike not-so-many-years-ago there doesn't even seem to be a significant difference between different suburban areas anymore. Max budget would be around 700k.

On the other hand, am seeing some decent 3 bed flats in areas close to work (Ealing), and in some trendy more-central areas. I'm seeing some around the 550-600 mark and reasonable service charges. This would be much more affordable and allow for more slack with work and would be able to actually enjoy the things we want to move back to London for. (Have a preference for older purpose-built flats).

But is this a terrible idea with young children? (I know my parents would not be happy!)

I live in a big city centre and know loads of people who live in flats with kids, there is green space and parks etc all around as will be the case in London as well. The stairs are a pain at the buggy stage but you quickly reap rewards of them being very independent and savvy with regard to city living and public transport etc. 10/10 would recommend.

Pinner / Eastcote / Ruislip? You could get a semi for 700k there.

But in principle, I suspect that more people olive in flats than houses in London. As they do in big German cities, for example.

My cousins live in a lovely flat with 2 kids, a few mins walk from a fab park, and are relaxed and happy. You just need the flat in the right location that is right for you.

Not sure what it has to do with your parents.

Sounds like a good idea all round. Are you past the buggy stage?

Plenty of London boroughs will have decent houses for 700k just depends what you want.

@EggInANest I guess because parents helped for first house and like an opinion. They are big believers in putting everything you have into property and spending money on pretty much anything else (like the 'london lifestyle' we would like) is a waste.

@soffa Can I ask which ones. Will check out Pinner. The furthest North I have looked so far is around Palmers Green.

Live in a small terrace cottage now and is fine for us so not big on size, but for 700k, couldn't afford to do any work.

I live in a flat with kids. Most of my daughters school friends do. We keep on chatting about moving, but the kids love it. There is a real community, three communal parks and they spend the summers day outside playing with friends. We're probably the last place in London the friends knock on the door to come out and play.

@theyf

I'm not great on Notth but South would be places like Streatham, Norbury, Tooting,parts of Bromley, Cheam, Worcester Park, Mostpur Park, New Malde, parts of Merton

But agree with your point that the cheaper areas have gone up a lot & you paying the price of gentrification but the reality is some are very much part of that process.

I do know people in flats very happy. I was too but the dc are now older & I needed more school options.

What school ages are they?

We literally had this thread three days ago. Will try to find a link.

Here you go: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4767499-to-be-scared-people-will-judge-us-for-buying-a-flat-with-a-dc?page=1

I think it's totally do-able, it's pretty normal across many European cities in fact. It's one of my personal bugbears so that so many of my family/acquaintances seem to believe it's totally impossible to raise kids in anything less than a 4 bed semi with large garden, so much so that some of them have saddled themselves with huge unmanageable mortgages, enormous commutes and/or totally isolated themselves from friends and family because they've had to move so far away to get that. When with a few compromises they could have had a nice flat in a much better area. But each to their own I guess - things to bear in mind for me are:

-A lot of new build and more modern flats may (on paper) have the number of beds and baths you need but are very poky/mean in the size of those rooms. They can look deceptively spacious with nice 'dressing'/furnishings and clever photos but you need to look past that at where all your stuff would actually go. E.g. will the master bedroom fit a double wardrobe? Is there room in the DC's bedrooms for a small desk as well as their bed and clothes storage, if not how will they do their homework in future? Do you have bikes or other outdoor kit and where will they live? I'd recommend looking at flats which are more like 40-50 years old as they were more generous with their sizing in the 70s/80s even if the blocks are less attractive on the outside.

-Look closely at the leasehold arrangements (share of freehold is ideal if you can find a small block that comes with this) - there is potential for big repair bills even if the service charge is reasonable, and of course if you buy with a shorter lease there will be costs for extending it. On this note I'd be very very cautious of any building with cladding post-Grenfell as a lot of leaseholders found themselves landed with the enormous costs of fixing unsafe cladding.

-Personally I think it's fine to have a shared garden or even a nearby park but then I'm not a gardener or sunbather or other person for whom private outdoor space is important at all. I guess have a think about how you use your garden ATM if you have one, do your kids like to play football or trampoline for instance as that's probably not OK in a communal space. If there is any communal space with your block maybe try and find out how the current residents used it, when we last had everyone dried their laundry outside for instance but in some blocks people are fussy about airers cluttering up the place.

-Do think about clever storage and other space saving solutions, e.g. for ages we thought we needed a spare room for guests but actually a really good sofa bed can do the job for the odd occasion sometime actually stays overnight, or, since it's London, there's loads of very local hotel, b and b or air bnb options for longer-term guests. High-sleepers with a bed above and desk/chill out area below are great for older DC. Seating benches with storage inside, pull-out kitchen cupboards, pull down clothes airers etc can make small-space living a lot more manageable!

I don't think there's anything wrong with living in a flat with kids, loads of people do in in big cities it seems very British to "need" a house.

Having said that, if you do want a house and you're working in Ealing- there are some houses in Hanwell area for that budget, and with the new train it's quite well connected

Try Bounds Green

Personally I don't think you can really compare living in a flat here to Europe. There's a different culture & set up
Often in London your paying 700k for a flat in Z3 & still a 20 min walk from the station/high street. 10 mins further away & you could get a house with a similar journeys time.

There's also cladding issues & high service charges. Add ridiculous rents & obsession with ever increasing prices you can see why houses are considered a "safer bet". Although I think if you were buying a flat in Mayfair that would be seen as different

@DevantMaJardin

That's great thanks! For me I guess its more I would feel sort of guilty for getting less than the max we can afford because I want to be able to go to theatres, eat out, pay for DC extra curriculars etc.

Have 3 DC altogether, all primary school ages.

Why is there an aversion to a flat?
Why is an upstairs intrinsically important?

I'd prioritise an outdoors but many flats have nice large outdoors.

Flat all one level is fantastic with small kids
Get some outside space for water play in summer

Look at floor plans and sq m
Look at storage whether garden storage for bikes
Consider built in floor to ceiling storage
Check for local self storage options or on street bicycle lock ups

I would 100% do the flat

I wouldn’t- nothing could make me opt for a flat with children. I live in London, zone 4 south east, house prob worth 500k, it’s doable if you don’t insist on living in an Edwardian house in zone 2.

We lived in a 3 bed flat for 8 years with young DC.

It was fine as we had a garden (although access was via a steep staircase from the kitchen..not great for small kids).

One of my main concerns was the amount of noise we might be causing our neighbours downstairs. Luckily they were really top folks and said we didn't bother them, but I fed their cat a few times and could hear my two running about..impossible to keep small kids silent.

We moved a few years ago into a 4 bed house and it was a game changer for us, but obviously a lot more costly. I do like not having people living above or below me!

Fine with young kids if it's a garden flat. Without a garden it's hell.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers I think your numbers are a bit out of date. V little below £700k in SE zone 3/4 now

How about this OP in nice Muswell Hill /Ally pally with share of freehold

I'm a fussy bugger and even I think this is nice

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/132611420#/?channel=RES_BUY