Property/DIY
can anyone make an educated guess if this might be a load bearing wall?
ArcticBlue · 17/03/2023 21:48
I don't know if this is possible and will be getting a professional to say for sure once we move in but we plan to remove the wall between kitchen and dining room and hopefully move the bathroom one into bedroom 2 to create a bigger space for a separate shower. Will only do upstairs if not load bearing. Will do downstairs for sure, even if it means putting in other support so this is just me doing an imaginary budget for both options so I can see how much might be left to spend on the kitchen!
Does the opening between the kitchen and dining room mean it's less likely to be load bearing?
It was built in 1985 in central Scotland.
johnd2 · 17/03/2023 21:50
The opening makes no difference.i would guess it is and the joists go side to side because that way is shorter. But you can check by lifting the carpet and looking at the floorboards direction.
Load bearing walls often have openings, from a standard front door through to 5+metres of bi-folds.
You can always do the work you want given the budget.
Miscellaneousme · 17/03/2023 21:54
We’ve got doors in all our load bearing walls so I don’t think that is a factor. I would imagine the downstairs kitchen/diner wall is load bearing with another wall directly above? The upstairs wall may be too (supporting the roof).
ArcticBlue · 17/03/2023 22:54
That's frustrating, it really needs upgraded-it's as it was when it was first built but having to do the extra work to put support in will mean waiting while we get a building warrant and find someone who can do the work. I'm trying to plan for it but hope it's not needed but maybe I need to stop hoping so I'm not disappointed. I think we have a decent enough budget for it, I'm just impatient to get it somewhere nice to live. Thanks for the help, it's all very overwhelming.
Surplus2requirements · 18/03/2023 00:13
The only way to be sure is determining the joist direction. Given the position of the stairwell the joist direction may be top to bottom with the horizontal wall supporting but that's not a given.
I don't know how much things in Scotland are different but in England regs would only require a few scribbles from a structural engineer to replace a supporting wall with a beam.
Construction wise its very straight forward the only downside is you lose a continuous ceiling.
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 01:28
Thanks, maybe I can hope a little! I believe we need a building warrant here but hopefully wouldn't take too long to get, they have an online portal to apply though. I've had a lot of bad luck with contractors so it makes me a bit nervous but I'm sure it will be worth it in the end.
Notanotherone5 · 18/03/2023 06:47
upstairs, why wouldn’t you move the bathroom into the cupboard next door rather than into bedroom 2? Or wouldn’t that give you enough extra space?
WeAreTheHeroes · 18/03/2023 08:12
You can always put a large opening in the wall between the kitchen and dining room instead with a lintel above. It would obviously not be the same as removing the wall, but with good kitchen planning could work well.
I don't get what any of that has to do with not going ahead with the bathroom?? If you lose a bedroom though that will impact on the value of your house.
Just looking at the floorplans again, I think it might be better to take some space off the back of the garage, say level with the hall cupboard wall, increase the size of the downstairs loo to make it a lootility, so move your washing machine, etc into there. Use the space from the internal garage door to the new wall of the garage, i.e. to the side of the new lootility, as a pantry. Then knock the current utility and kitchen together. That way you don't lose the garage and the proportionately large utility room becomes part of a bigger kitchen. You could open up the wall into the dining room too. Put doors in between the living room and dining room to give some separation.
WeAreTheHeroes · 18/03/2023 08:15
Another thought: if you knock the utility and kitchen together then you have the option in the future to extend across the back to make the space bigger in future if you wanted to without losing the bay window on the current dining room.
C4tastrophe · 18/03/2023 08:28
Looking at your plan, the wall between the kitchen and dining room is in line with the wall dividing bed 2 and 3. Therefore it’s most likely load bearing and will require a steel to support the upstairs bedroom wall.
Ilovefishcakes201 · 18/03/2023 08:35
I’m 90% sure both the kitchen wall and the bathroom wall be load bearing.
The kitchen wall will be doable but the bathroom wall will be quite expensive and will be a serious disruption.
Lonelycrab · 18/03/2023 08:42
C4tastrophe · 18/03/2023 08:28
Looking at your plan, the wall between the kitchen and dining room is in line with the wall dividing bed 2 and 3. Therefore it’s most likely load bearing and will require a steel to support the upstairs bedroom wall.
Yes that was my first thought too
FurierTransform · 18/03/2023 08:45
I'd guess that yes that wall will be lpad bearing, supporting the ends of the joists in the kitchen/dining ceiling. Being a 1985 the bedroom walls are probably stud walls which makes reconfiguring upstairs easier.
Loveyoutomatoes · 18/03/2023 08:47
I feel quite confident in saying it's load bearing. Can still be knocked down but you'll need permission, beams etc, it's possible but would cost lots.
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 12:06
Notanotherone5 · 18/03/2023 06:47
upstairs, why wouldn’t you move the bathroom into the cupboard next door rather than into bedroom 2? Or wouldn’t that give you enough extra space?
The water tank is in that cupboard so not straightforward to do either
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 12:19
WeAreTheHeroes · 18/03/2023 08:12
You can always put a large opening in the wall between the kitchen and dining room instead with a lintel above. It would obviously not be the same as removing the wall, but with good kitchen planning could work well.
I don't get what any of that has to do with not going ahead with the bathroom?? If you lose a bedroom though that will impact on the value of your house.
Just looking at the floorplans again, I think it might be better to take some space off the back of the garage, say level with the hall cupboard wall, increase the size of the downstairs loo to make it a lootility, so move your washing machine, etc into there. Use the space from the internal garage door to the new wall of the garage, i.e. to the side of the new lootility, as a pantry. Then knock the current utility and kitchen together. That way you don't lose the garage and the proportionately large utility room becomes part of a bigger kitchen. You could open up the wall into the dining room too. Put doors in between the living room and dining room to give some separation.
I just feel I definitely want to open up downstairs to make it nicer and work better for us but I'm not 100% sold on upstairs. I think it's worth spending the money and taking the time to get downstairs right but is it worth it just to have a separate shower rather than one over the bath?
Not concerned with value of the house at all, we want a space that works for us for the rest of our working lives and possibly beyond, it is a priority that it's our home, rather than an investment.
Will consider the garage idea for sure though. It supports the 4th bedroom and I think the ceiling heights may be different from memory, so may have similar issues. I know I need some professional help with best options as I really have no idea what I'm doing.
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 12:22
WeAreTheHeroes · 18/03/2023 08:15
Another thought: if you knock the utility and kitchen together then you have the option in the future to extend across the back to make the space bigger in future if you wanted to without losing the bay window on the current dining room.
There are stairs down to ground level at the back so I presume that makes that more complicated too. We don't really need more space as there will only be the two of us living there.
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 12:25
C4tastrophe · 18/03/2023 08:28
Looking at your plan, the wall between the kitchen and dining room is in line with the wall dividing bed 2 and 3. Therefore it’s most likely load bearing and will require a steel to support the upstairs bedroom wall.
I wondered if the room measurements being a couple of inches out meant they were different sizes or just not measured accurately.
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 12:26
Ilovefishcakes201 · 18/03/2023 08:35
I’m 90% sure both the kitchen wall and the bathroom wall be load bearing.
The kitchen wall will be doable but the bathroom wall will be quite expensive and will be a serious disruption.
Why would doing it upstairs be more work than down if you don't mind explaining?
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 12:31
FurierTransform · 18/03/2023 08:45
I'd guess that yes that wall will be lpad bearing, supporting the ends of the joists in the kitchen/dining ceiling. Being a 1985 the bedroom walls are probably stud walls which makes reconfiguring upstairs easier.
Thanks. It's really helpful to have a better idea so I can try to plan a little. I'm just keen to get it done quickly as it's not going to be great to live in as is but I guess I need to be prepared for that.
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 12:32
Loveyoutomatoes · 18/03/2023 08:47
I feel quite confident in saying it's load bearing. Can still be knocked down but you'll need permission, beams etc, it's possible but would cost lots.
Thanks. I guess we just need to spend, how much do you think when you say lots?
BeachBlondey · 18/03/2023 13:01
Not what you asked, but I'd knock the Utility / Kitchen wall down and make a much bigger kitchen.
Silverlog · 18/03/2023 13:53
Loveyoutomatoes · 18/03/2023 08:47
I feel quite confident in saying it's load bearing. Can still be knocked down but you'll need permission, beams etc, it's possible but would cost lots.
This. Deffo load bearing.
Loveyoutomatoes · 18/03/2023 16:02
ArcticBlue · 18/03/2023 12:32
Thanks. I guess we just need to spend, how much do you think when you say lots?
Loveyoutomatoes · 18/03/2023 08:47
I feel quite confident in saying it's load bearing. Can still be knocked down but you'll need permission, beams etc, it's possible but would cost lots.
A structural engineer would probably be over £2k (but I guess this would pretty much be area dependent!) and then I would imagine a few/couple thousands per column (not sure if you'd need columns or beams instead).
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