Extensions without nibs

[Newhousecrying]

has anyone had an extension that required steels and got a wall that’s flush or near to flush? And how did you do it?

Our kitchen has 45cm deep wall nibs which (I assume) are holding a steel. we can’t have a long run of units or countertop. So it’s more like two tiny kitchens (1.1x2.5m) We’re thinking about removing these if it’s possible. One side is a corner of the house.

Can you draw a diagram? Hard to imagine what you mean by 2 tiny kitchens. Is it not possible to build out the wall to make it flush? You could have inset wall shelves or something.

Sorry for the terrible sketch. Building it out isn’t an option because it would make the kitchen too narrow.

there isn’t a lot of storage at the moment and we really want to put a dishwasher in. If we could move the nib we could have wide drawers and worktop space around the hob.

The diagram isn’t great, but the steel upright support doesn’t have to be 45cm deep (although I guess that depends on how much weight the rsj is bearing). We have a box frame in our extension and the rsj steel across the ceiling is supporting two storeys above. The upright support pillars on the side walls are about 10cm deep. Some of that is the boxing in rather than the steel itself.

Our kitchen was very similar to yours newhousecrying. We extended and now have no nibs. We used a steel goalpost type structure. The uprights are cut into the walls (including the existing party wall that remained in place). I think you just need to let the person doing your design/structural engineer know that you would want to remove the piers.

If I remember rightly, we could have kept the piers and padstones would have been used - I think it's all about spreading the load. We opted to remove the piers which meant we needed the upright steels. They are recessed into the walls and have concrete pads under them.

I’m guessing the nib is a 2 block pier. It would involve redoing the structure to get rid of it but it is possibly possible but ££££££.

If it is like our house, it has a concrete beam running across between the two piers.

Yes, it will increase the cost. I'm not sure of the difference it made to the cost of our build but yes, more steels to calculate and buy, demolition work on the piers, cutting into the walls, increased complexity in installing the steels and they will need to break up the existing floor and excavate under the wall to install the concrete pads (that I think are something like 1m2 or 1m4 even. Worth it to get rid of the piers though!

Thanks everyone.

@BananaPie it does seem oversized for the amount of house it’s carrying but I don’t know how long ago the extension was done so technology could have been very poor then. We’ve nnot been brave enough to look before the plaster.

@redglobox we’re hoping they can be recessed into the walls. The kitchen has large windows on two walls and three doors (cupboard, outside, hallway) it’s so awkward to work with.

We’re extending at the moment and I was adamant I didn’t want any nibs. We ended up with tiny ones we’re masking with wall build up.

how big are they if you don’t mind me asking. ?

@Newhousecrying 5cm at their worst but hidden behind tall units. I think we probably could have lessened it’s impact but didn’t need to because of where it’s positioned.

Use steel columns instead of masonry piers.

You need to account for the weight coming down from above but also for wind blowing on the side of the house if it is a corner of the existing house.

Tell your Engineer what you want to achieve. You can't just miss them out or make them shorter without checking first.

It’ll be crazy money to re do that structural work for what you gain. What about getting deeper counter tops along the problem wall? So 900mm rather than 650mm. You’ll end up with a deeper corner, which could be useful for fruit bowl, kettle etc. but you’d be able to have a run of work top which is less compromised.

Any idea how much?

i considered that but increasing the counter depth on the problem wall means we’d lose a unit on the adjacent wall

I would get an architect to look at your whole ground floor layout and do the lot of work in one go to change and modernise your downstairs. As someone else said this work is crazy money for the return you will get so I would only do it as part of a much larger refurb. There is a lot of work in changing this you will likely need foundations and depending on what is being carried above will determine the size of the steel. Looking at what you sketched I would say a wall was taken out before previously which is why you now have the piers although I have seen small lean too roofs build as part of an original house with that detail.

Extend, do an open plan kitchen diner, connect with the garden all the modern wants for family life and you might be able to recoup the value of the work in any future house sale or just maintain the value in line with the work.

Those piers are a bit deep. You should be able to reduce them to approx 10cm plus plaster. This will give a depth of approx 200mm either end for the padstones as you will seat them on walls as well. Very easy to do but you’ll need new beams, drawings etc.
The cost of the steel frame approach would be prohibitive in a normal house IMO.
Talk to an architect.

Thanks everyone. We considered extending the back to make it a full width rear extension but don’t want to intrude any further back on the garden. So the whole room would be 2.6x5m and we’d lose a bit of the long living room.

Also we don’t know if we want to stay here forever so don’t want to do lots of major work.

@Thepurplelantern looking at the deeds it looks like the wall has been taken out before.

We had an extension last year and when I saw the piers nibs I felt the same - what's the point it doesn't look like one big room! We went back to the architect and he changed it with the structural engineer. He warned it would cost more but it was a non negotiable for me as we wanted a large open plan room. We have goal post steels in that section instead. I will see if I can find a pic from that stage.

You need a Structural Engineer to work this out. There are numerous factors which affects what is required.

“drawings, etc”