Page 4 | Wood burner: I know this has been done to death, but I'm rural and now conflicted.

user1471530109 · 2023-02-19T19:38:48+00:00

I've finally got the money together to do some of the many jobs around the house. Moved in 5+ years ago and it's been a hard slog. I've always planned to add a wood burner. I'm rural but we do have gas in the small village. My boiler froze in the v cold snap before Christmas and I had no other source of heating and it made me convinced the woodburner was going in! But the money is sat there and I'm not sure it's the right move after all the bad press. Surely they won't ban them in villages and rural areas? Maybe towns and cities? I know the health issues-that obviously worries me too. In the winter, when it's a very still day, the smoke outside from all the wood burners is thick! But I'm guessing most of these are ancient stoves in the many v old houses round here. I've toyed with a gas stove but I keep thinking that's daft with the gas prices going through the roof. Any other options? I'm not overly convinced by electric. A wood burner in rural areas the best option? Tia

BiasedBinding · 20/02/2023 02:27

LizzieSiddal · 19/02/2023 23:07

@UserNameSameGame but those twenty houses or even a whole village, are not usually tightly packed together. I have only six houses along my lane, we all have woodburners, I’ve never smelt anything when I’m outside and can see they are lit.

In villages you often get terraces of small houses, small estates etc - what is “tightly packed together” in your mind? I don’t know the answer on this, I’m just trying to understand where the tipping point might be between urban and single house in the middle of a field (maybe no one knows)

AlwaysLatte · 20/02/2023 02:33

I love my log burner. It's a big improvement on the huge open fire we had before, and much more efficient.

changeme4this · 20/02/2023 03:05

Rural non uk. Wood burner here and gas cooktop. Our electricity goes out frequently but we are warm and can still cook.

Railwayroad · 20/02/2023 07:06

I thought about getting one but all me neighbours seem to have them and the air quality is impacted definitely around here. Suburbs near a big city.

I instead got an Aga electric stove. It’s great. Looks good, solid and doesn’t look fake. Aga

chocolateisavegetable · 20/02/2023 07:27

We’re rural with no option for gas. We replaced the old log burner that was definitely leaking with a new one, and use a device that measures whether the logs are dry enough to use. It was a lifesaver when we were without power for 47 hours last winter

Ricco12 · 20/02/2023 07:41

The laws around them are already being followed by installation companies. You will be buying a stove that already complies to it.

Also gas boilers aren't really good for environment anyway they burn natural gas, which will always emit some level of carbon dioxide, which is a major greenhouse gas that contributes to climate change.

Neither is great but ultimately you need to heat your home so install you wood burner.

Ricco12 · 20/02/2023 07:46

Burning wood is kinder to the environment than using gas or electricity. On average, wood produces 0.008kg of CO2 p/kwh whereas gas produces 0.198kg and electricity produces 0.517kg. Wood is generally thought of as a carbon neutral fuel.

watchfulwishes · 20/02/2023 07:55

Ricco12 · 20/02/2023 07:46

Burning wood is kinder to the environment than using gas or electricity. On average, wood produces 0.008kg of CO2 p/kwh whereas gas produces 0.198kg and electricity produces 0.517kg. Wood is generally thought of as a carbon neutral fuel.

What is the actual number of kWh used with e.g. wood burner for 8 hours, calor gas heater for 8 hours and single electric heater for 8 hours?

I personally couldn't discount the internal air pollution aspect, lung health is important to me.

Ricco12 · 20/02/2023 08:08

@watchfulwishes

There are many sources of PM in the home, such as personal care products, candles, cleaning, cooking and burning wood. The aforementioned literature review shows:

	No scientific evidence was found for adverse health impacts from exposure to the indoor air typically associated with modern, enclosed wood-burning stoves. 
	No association was shown between exposure to indoor wood burning and the risk of asthma in developed countries. 
	The use of modern wood-burning stoves may help to improve air quality inside the home due to the natural draught created during wood stove operation that pulls air from the room into the appliance and from outside. 
	Other sources of particulate matter in the home, such as cooking, can release much higher levels of PM compared to modern, enclosed wood-burning stoves, and could therefore have greater health risk potential. 
	In one study, oil-based cooking, such as frying food or grilling meat, had a peak value PM concentrations significantly higher than the WHO recommended average 24hr exposure limit. 
	In the same study, the Ecodesign wood burning stove indoor air quality averages during operation were below the WHO recommended limits.

Air quality in our homes has a significant influence on our health. Sadly, misinformation of the past had wrongly suggested that wood-burning stoves are negatively impacting air quality. This simply is not true. The findings of this review indicate there is no association between exposure to wood-burning stoves and the risk of asthma in developed countries. Wood-burning stoves in this study were glass-fronted stoves and not open fires, which would have a very different impact on indoor pollution.

Ricco12 · 20/02/2023 08:10

This was a good arrival I read on the subject I've tried to copy it below.

Ultimately we are exposed to harmful chemicals everywhere, but the biggest source is the food chain. That's way worse a concern to me than anything a wood burning stove omits

Blurpy · 20/02/2023 08:17

I would honestly assess whether it is a need or a want. Do you need one? How often are you cut off from the mains? Could you survive ok for those few days without a wood burner?

Are you genuinely installing it to use a couple of times a year when your boiler freezes? To me the expense doesn't seem worth it.

So saying, I'm not totally convinced on burning local wood being worse than burning gas. The emissions from the second are just further away/outsourced to some other area.

Calmdown14 · 20/02/2023 08:24

Don't have gas and absolutely love ours.

It is a bit of work stacking the wood, making kindling etc but to be honest, I really enjoy it. love that feeling of preparing for winter and knowing you have enough to keep you going.

As long as you have room for a decent log store and decent chimney height you'll be fine.

I think a lot of the issues are people putting them in single storey extensions, especially where they are lower down the slope than their neighbours.

I can't tell when my neighbours have theirs on but those with coal fires are a different matter.

I don't see the need in a city but they are a godsend in the country.

mumonthehill · 20/02/2023 08:26

Live rurally and in an old house, no mains gas and have oil heating. We have a wood burner but keep it well maintained and only burn seasoned wood. That means buying now to use next year. We do not have neighbours but most homes here have them. I am still not sure what does more harm to the environment, lighting the wood burner or using more oil for the heating.

RidingMyBike · 20/02/2023 08:26

We've removed one from the house we've bought - DH has a lung condition and we have a child so didn't think it would be a good idea to use one.

We've had the gas capped off and gone all electric with solar panels and an air source heat pump but this isn't cheap as a whole package! There is a £5k grant at the moment towards ASHP but you often need to replace radiators (need bigger ones) or switch to UFH and the house needs to be well-insulated for it to work well.

Our costs should end up lower than having a gas boiler although it will vary with time of year because of the solar panels.

midgemadgemodge · 20/02/2023 08:33

My ( fairly) educated guess is that oil is worse than wood from a global warming perspective (carbon emissions ) but wood burners are bad for particulates which get inhaled and impacts peoples lungs and mental health

Hard therefore to compare as it's would you rather cancer or dementia type of thing

SkankingWombat · 20/02/2023 08:34

I would go for it. I love ours and it is invaluable during power cuts (we're semi rural) as is the gas hob. It is cheap to run too IME - we spent £155 on local kiln dried logs (delivery included) in September and haven't run out yet. I collect offcuts at work throughout the year for kindling, so that costs us nothing. We have gas CH, but have had that set very low for the 2hrs it is on am and pm and used the stove instead when colder. Our gas bill has been much lower than friends who don't have a burner this year. I only notice a faint smell in the house when first lighting it (presumably because the door is open), but not when adding logs once it's up to temperature. I can't smell it outside although this may be because we live in a very windy location, so the little there is doesn't get a chance to linger! Our NDN have an open fire, and you can smell theirs faintly outside, however.

lljkk · 20/02/2023 09:02

wouldn't sit them behind a diesel lorry

sitting behind a diesel lorry (or bus, the buses are the worst) is like standing (outside) next to my oilfired boiler, I get a horrible dose of obvious fumes from either.

I don't get any dose of obvious noxious fumes inside or outside when our burner is going. The only unpleasant obvious pollution off the burner is dust when clearing the ashes.

midgemadgemodge · 20/02/2023 09:15

I suspect the smell from diesel isn't necessarily of the damaging particulates

Zipps · 20/02/2023 09:29

We love ours. People have been burning wood for warmth for thousands of years.
It's just more control probably so they can think up some stupid tax for them. We live in a billionaire dictatorship, albeit a soft one.
Burn kiln dried wood, have the chimney swept.

GasPanic · 20/02/2023 09:45

I think if you are in a rural area and have no access to mains gas then these are acceptable because your choices are limited. In the rural area which is not built up the pollution will disperse. They will still pollute the inside of the house, but that is the owners problem if they want to choke themselves with dangerous particulates.

In towns and anywhere there is mains gas access they should be banned. We've spent years improving the air quality by imposing ever more stringent limits on car emissions. We've basically stopped burning coal because it is too dirty. And now we are going to ruin all the progress made by polluting the air with smoke from wood burning.

Gas is a much better alternative because it burns more cleanly and produces much less soot if burning properly (that's why you don't need the flue sweeping hardly ever for a gas fire). There are practically no particulates from gas and if you have a gas fire it can work properly without electricity. Wood is always going to be a poor alternative.

The other thing is that gas is far more controlled in composition. A lot of people chuck any old crap on woodburners which produces noxious, toxic smoke. When you get several people doing that in a built up area it reduces the air quality significantly. You're not going to be able to stop this because there are always idiots that do it, so better just to ban the things from all areas that don't have a justifiable need them.

A lot of people go on about their "right to burn stuff as we have been doing for thousands of years", they seem less concerned with the right of people to be able to breathe clean air free of noxious choking pollution.

The issues associated with these things are only going to get worse, so better to deal with them now.

StillWantingADog · 20/02/2023 10:24

RidingMyBike · 20/02/2023 08:26

We've removed one from the house we've bought - DH has a lung condition and we have a child so didn't think it would be a good idea to use one.

We've had the gas capped off and gone all electric with solar panels and an air source heat pump but this isn't cheap as a whole package! There is a £5k grant at the moment towards ASHP but you often need to replace radiators (need bigger ones) or switch to UFH and the house needs to be well-insulated for it to work well.

Our costs should end up lower than having a gas boiler although it will vary with time of year because of the solar panels.

I might pm you later if that’s ok- this is our plan for this year. Solar is already in place and Ashp is next- trying to sort out the radiators thing which is the main sticking point

PissedOffNeighbour22 · 20/02/2023 11:10

@GasPanic Id be quite happy for my neighbour to choke himself to death on dangerous particulates. Unfortunately most of it ends up inside my house.

We don't have mains gas here, we're on LPG, one neighbour on oil, one using a ground source heat pump but of course the one attached burns any old shit everyday and because his house is lower than ours, the smoke flows straight into our garden and house.

I suppose there's a case for extremely rural properties but for anyone who has a neighbour, they should be banned. I'm fed up of my garden being constantly full of stinking smoke hanging in the air making it completely unusable most of the year.

SupermarketMum · 20/02/2023 11:10

Ricco12 · 20/02/2023 08:08

@watchfulwishes

There are many sources of PM in the home, such as personal care products, candles, cleaning, cooking and burning wood. The aforementioned literature review shows:

	No scientific evidence was found for adverse health impacts from exposure to the indoor air typically associated with modern, enclosed wood-burning stoves. 
	No association was shown between exposure to indoor wood burning and the risk of asthma in developed countries. 
	The use of modern wood-burning stoves may help to improve air quality inside the home due to the natural draught created during wood stove operation that pulls air from the room into the appliance and from outside. 
	Other sources of particulate matter in the home, such as cooking, can release much higher levels of PM compared to modern, enclosed wood-burning stoves, and could therefore have greater health risk potential. 
	In one study, oil-based cooking, such as frying food or grilling meat, had a peak value PM concentrations significantly higher than the WHO recommended average 24hr exposure limit. 
	In the same study, the Ecodesign wood burning stove indoor air quality averages during operation were below the WHO recommended limits.

Air quality in our homes has a significant influence on our health. Sadly, misinformation of the past had wrongly suggested that wood-burning stoves are negatively impacting air quality. This simply is not true. The findings of this review indicate there is no association between exposure to wood-burning stoves and the risk of asthma in developed countries. Wood-burning stoves in this study were glass-fronted stoves and not open fires, which would have a very different impact on indoor pollution.

I’d agree with this, based on my air purifier readings, I get much worse readings from cooking, the log burner barely makes any difference

SupermarketMum · 20/02/2023 11:12

GasPanic · 20/02/2023 09:45

I think if you are in a rural area and have no access to mains gas then these are acceptable because your choices are limited. In the rural area which is not built up the pollution will disperse. They will still pollute the inside of the house, but that is the owners problem if they want to choke themselves with dangerous particulates.

In towns and anywhere there is mains gas access they should be banned. We've spent years improving the air quality by imposing ever more stringent limits on car emissions. We've basically stopped burning coal because it is too dirty. And now we are going to ruin all the progress made by polluting the air with smoke from wood burning.

Gas is a much better alternative because it burns more cleanly and produces much less soot if burning properly (that's why you don't need the flue sweeping hardly ever for a gas fire). There are practically no particulates from gas and if you have a gas fire it can work properly without electricity. Wood is always going to be a poor alternative.

The other thing is that gas is far more controlled in composition. A lot of people chuck any old crap on woodburners which produces noxious, toxic smoke. When you get several people doing that in a built up area it reduces the air quality significantly. You're not going to be able to stop this because there are always idiots that do it, so better just to ban the things from all areas that don't have a justifiable need them.

A lot of people go on about their "right to burn stuff as we have been doing for thousands of years", they seem less concerned with the right of people to be able to breathe clean air free of noxious choking pollution.

The issues associated with these things are only going to get worse, so better to deal with them now.

Gas may burn cleanly but the production of gas doesn’t - home heating with gas is one of the main sources of CO2 emissions into the atmosphere.

bellac11 · 20/02/2023 11:17

It does make me wonder where the narrative for this is coming from. Those of us who actually have burners and who test the air/monitor our air dont find there are issues with particulates inside the house. Yet all over threads like this other posters who presumably havent done the same tests continue to say that there are health issues or air quality issues inside the home

Ive never been convinced by the apparent study results about outside pollution either. Its not broken down into different types of burner device and different types of wood.

Much of the rates of pollution in London is always going to be higher because central London is in a dip so pollution will hang there rather than clear away. I wouldnt be in support of banning them, either in cities or countryside.

There seems to be a new article every week in the Guardian, they're obsessed with it but its unclear where this is coming from, they're becoming a bit dailymailesque in their 'lets ban this thing'.

I wouldnt buy a house without one now, or if I did I would have to get one installed.