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Original poster

No permission to use shared septic tank -WWYD?

52 replies

Heje · 14/02/2023 21:15

We're buying a property and nearing exchange. The sellers are putting a lot of pressure on us to exchange ASAP due to their onwards purchase.

The property shares a septic tank with its neighbour. It was part of a larger plot including a barn but about 20 years ago the barn was sold separately. Both properties use a septic tank in the garden of the barn conversion.

Conveyancing has revealed that at the time the properties were legally divided they forgot to grant rights for use of the septic tank to the property we're looking to purchase. It's been used by both properties without issue with shared cost all this time.

I know it's not likely but it seems legally possible that whoever the neighbours are could prevent us using the septic tank.

Ideally we'd want the sellers to agree to arrange for the neighbours to explicitly grant the right, but I think they won't want to delay. My solicitor mentioned an indemnity but even if it was watertight it wouldn't prevent a whole load of potential hassle.

Has anyone come across this before? WWYD if the seller refuses to try and legalise the permission?

OP posts:
Catmummyof2 · 14/02/2023 21:49

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 14/02/2023 22:00

If they refuse then you walk away.

Sprig1 · 14/02/2023 22:08

Budget for a new treatment plant (about £15k).

LittleBear21 · 14/02/2023 22:21

The problem here is if they ask the barn conversion for an easement and the current owners say no (or not without massive payoff) then your Sellers won't be able to get insurance. So then they won't be able to sell to anyone. There's no way your Seller's solicitor will advise them to approach the barn conversion for an easement.

So this is a simple question of whether you are prepared to buy with only the protection of insurance. These policies are pretty common and pretty secure. But you're right, that won't help with the practical hassle/worry when the barn conversion threaten to take steps to physically cut you off.

2bazookas · 14/02/2023 22:23

Any other buyer of this property is going to insist on the same legal easement . So if you pull out, it's not as if anybody else is going to snap it up. The sellers don't really have a choice. They must sort this out, at their expense, PDQ.

You're paying your lawyer to handle legal issues on your behalf. So first, he should give their lawyer written warning that you won't proceed with the purchase until use of the septic tank has been resolved to your satisfaction.

tattychicken · 14/02/2023 22:31

The sort of arrangement you need is quite usual, we have it with our neighbours eg their waste drains into the septic tank based on our property, we share costs eg emptying, repairs, servicing etc. No problems at all. But this is all laid out in the deeds.
However I don't think you should proceed until the agreement is resolved. I don't think it should be too onerous to arrange, and you are in the driving seat at the moment.

Bobbybobbins · 14/02/2023 22:34

Agree with previous posters, do not proceed until this is sorted. It's surprising that the sellers haven't thought of this as a potential problem and as others have said, this will be an issue whoever buys it.

LegodOut · 14/02/2023 22:54

The problem here is if they ask the barn conversion for an easement and the current owners say no (or not without massive payoff) then your Sellers won't be able to get insurance. So then they won't be able to sell to anyone. There's no way your Seller's solicitor will advise them to approach the barn conversion for an easement.

Exactly this. So indemnity policy (at the seller's expense) is the way forward. This is very normal for situations like this (in fact we have one to cover the fact our septic tank outflows into someone elses borehole without any evidence of an easement).

The indemnity will pay out in the event the barn owner/future barn owners objects, and pays out on the basis of loss of value to your property, so here it would pay out enough to install a klargester on your own land.

Or, if you want to play hardball, then knock £15-20K (cost of a klargester) off the price the property.

But don't panic - indemnities are quite normal when buying period/country properties - drainage, rights of way, adverse possession, unregistered land, flying freeholds - there's probably several other ones on the farmstead!

friendlycat · 14/02/2023 22:55

Bobbybobbins · 14/02/2023 22:34

Agree with previous posters, do not proceed until this is sorted. It's surprising that the sellers haven't thought of this as a potential problem and as others have said, this will be an issue whoever buys it.

It doesn’t matter one iota that the vendor doesn’t want the delay. This has to be sorted. Any other potential purchaser will raise the same issue so it’s not a problem that will just go away.

You need the agreement in place legally.

Onnabugeisha · 14/02/2023 22:59

How close are the sewer mains? You could get a quote to connect from house to mains and then and ask for a price reduction matching the cost or most of the cost to connect it to the mains.

Then the septic tank is your neighbours problem 100%. And it sounds like an old one too…they do not last forever you know. You could get indemnity, be using it and then have to fork out 50% cost to replace the tank and drainage fields…and put your neighbours garden back to rights.

SeasonFinale · 14/02/2023 23:03

The Indemnity needs to happen first. If you ask and they refuse at that stage you can't apply for the Indemnity. If in reality there hadn't been an issue then it is unlikely to suddenly become one. If it does the insurance covers it.

Whereisthesun99 · 14/02/2023 23:12

How close is the main sewer? Could you get connected to it ? Last year we paid to be connected to the main sewer it was at the end of our driveway, it costs us £20k , this included the work, connection, council fees and paying to close the road while be connected , work only took couple of days. Prior to that we were paying couple of hundred a year for the tank to be emptied and that was with 4 of us using it (1 house)

Rollercoaster1920 · 14/02/2023 23:14

I'd ask for a reduction equal to the price of a new water treatment plant. About 15 to 20 thousand sounds like the figure.

Labraradabrador · 14/02/2023 23:27

Don’t succumb to pressure to move ahead. This would be a deal breaker for me (and I imagine just about any other buyer) if it isn’t sorted through indemnity policy, legal documentation or reduction in price depending on your preference.

I would also strongly encourage a survey of the system to understand timelines for repairs / replacement. Regs for septic systems have changed and continue to change, in addition to normal degradation of the system over time.

TooManyChoicesNotEnoughDecisions · 14/02/2023 23:31

Whereisthesun99 · 14/02/2023 23:12

How close is the main sewer? Could you get connected to it ? Last year we paid to be connected to the main sewer it was at the end of our driveway, it costs us £20k , this included the work, connection, council fees and paying to close the road while be connected , work only took couple of days. Prior to that we were paying couple of hundred a year for the tank to be emptied and that was with 4 of us using it (1 house)

We pay more than a couple of hundred a year in sewerage charges with our water bill, so not sure it's a positive financially getting hooked up to the mains. Unless it needs significant work the septic tank is probably a cheaper option.

Onnabugeisha · 14/02/2023 23:31

Rollercoaster1920 · 14/02/2023 23:14

I'd ask for a reduction equal to the price of a new water treatment plant. About 15 to 20 thousand sounds like the figure.

I think you need planning permission to put in a new septic tank and drainage. Also there may not be adequate land on the property to build a new one or the land may not be of the correct substrate to drain properly. That would be a huge risk to bank on just building your own.

The sewer mains connection is fast, low risk and cheaper in the long run so long as it isn’t miles away.

Itisbetter · 14/02/2023 23:40

I’d take the cost of a new tank off to proceed.

AlwaysLatte · 14/02/2023 23:46

We had a septic tank (not shared) but converted it to a sewage treatment plant. It's much more efficient now, could you consider that and adjust your offer accordingly?

TheTeenageYears · 15/02/2023 00:24

They can pressure you all they like but ultimately if you pull out because they refuse to do anything they will be back at square one with a new buyer so in an even worse position re their onward purchase. You hold the cards here - not them. How do they feel about dropping the asking price by enough to cover the costs of installing your own septic tank should this ever become an issue or is there a legal way of funds being held for a certain amount of time after the sale to cover that cost if the neighbours are in unwilling to grant an easement after exploring that option but without delaying the sale?

Itisbetter · 15/02/2023 11:02

This is entirely their nightmare. They are trying to sell a house without sewerage. I don’t think they can “pressure” you into anything.

Onnabugeisha · 15/02/2023 11:36

Itisbetter · 15/02/2023 11:02

This is entirely their nightmare. They are trying to sell a house without sewerage. I don’t think they can “pressure” you into anything.

I agree.

GasPanic · 15/02/2023 12:58

I would get them to either sort out the legal stuff with the ndn or knock off the price of your own tank installation.

As other people have said, they will need to sort it for the next buyer, so it makes more sense for them to sort it now.

LeroyJenkinssss · 15/02/2023 13:07

a sewage treatment plant would be a better option - it’s not a septic tank (which are I believe very difficult to get installed now anyway). Ours cost around £15k with some extra work being done (the old septic tank being removed). It’s very cheap to run (requires electricity) and servicing and maintenance are reasonable and offset against no sewage charges.

I am envious of peoples ability to connect to the main sewer network - when we tried they were demanding £30k plus and it’s literally at the bottom of our drive!

Viviennemary · 15/02/2023 13:10

Not surprised they don't want to delay when there is this massive issue with their property. It needs to be sorted out.

Gall10 · 15/02/2023 13:12

Don’t walk away….run!