Grade II listed Changing Layout / Staircase

[Silkierabbit]

Live in grade II listed house in conservation area. Previous owner took out a bedroom to change the staircase to one more suitable for elderly.

We want to change it back to get the bedroom back and staircase. We called in a staircase person a few years ago who was good and said they would make plans for free (offered to pay as well) but they never have, demand was always too high.

Has anyone any advice on a project like this. Does anyone know if demand for carpenters is lower now? We realise costs have risen a lot and need listed buildings consent etc.

Did they have planning permission to change the stairs and building regs? If you change it back, will you have enough room for the reinstated stairs to be compliant with current building regulations.? How many years ago was it changed?

Thanks very much. We've been told by neighbours it was changed maybe 10-15 years ago and its a modern staircase though likely a specially designed one. We need to check if they got planning permission.

The carpenter who came round reckoned it was possible to do within current building regs and had a really good plan we just could not get him to put them on paper or commit to it. Think demand for him was sky high.

I would talk to the Heritage building planners. I doubt if the stairs should have been taken out without permission but it would depend on whether they were original or not. You need to try and work out what you can do and whether current regs must be adhered to.

If you can prove with plans or photos that you are, in effect, restoring it to how it was originally then that will help your case, as will proving the changes didn't have permission or were sympathetic to the original building

the problem with something like this is the fact it is a listed building.
any work inside or out is tightly controlled by the LABC. if the stairs were removed without planning permission, then this is where is gets tricky.

old stair cases were a lot steeper than modern ones, I guess why they had to lose a bedroom. However the LABC (as far as I'm aware) cant make you put back something which would not comply now, even if it is "restoring it" back to it's original state, as the company that install it would have a hard time explaining why you fell down their steep stair case in court...should the worst happen.

Likewise the LABC would likely be "annoyed" that the stairs were removed in the first place.

the best thing to do would be to contact the your LABC and ask what your next steps were, as provided you keep them in the loop, you prevent any come back on yourselves.

I'd put money on them not getting permission the first time. Good luck OP. Please come back and tell us how it goes.

Thanks very much. Yes we really need to check that and it could be it was done without permission though it was an architect who sold it and everything else seemed above board.

Thanks for all the tips.

Surely your legal checks would have quickly flagged if there wasn't permission. It would be a key part of the searches given that it's listed.

Responsibility sits with the owner I believe, so if you buy a listed building that has been changed without permission the onus is on you.

You'll be able to check permission yourself via your local authority planning portal.

And then if all is above board it's a case of reapplying to have a traditional staircase and bedroom put back in. They might specify material types which would make it more expensive, eg would you have to have metal spindles not wood. Or traditional plaster etc.

We're in a listed building and planning recently took 7 months without any objections, they were really, really busy. We also had to use certain materials and methods.

Good carpenters are also booked up in my experience but given you'll have to wait for planning timing could work out.

Thanks very much. We didn't get a survey done and did not point out stairs to solicitor so its possible they were done without permission. Though everything else has been fine - they did gas and electricity checks etc immediately before and left us lots of a file of instructions on everything. Am expecting quite a delay as it took nearly a year to get approval for chimney works and that had lots of requirements in.

I think you have no option but to speak to the Historic Building officers at your LA. It’s not just the staircase that’s gone but an altered room too. If the owner was an architect there was no excuse. Probably an arrogance though! Also look at Historic England for your house and why it was listed. See attached.

You didn’t get a survey on a listed house?!!! That’s madness. The bills can be huge for repairs. Why are gas and electricity checks relevant? Was it rented out? Most households never do this. Good luck with sorting out the stairs though. A survey should have found this and reported to you.

Also can't believe you didn't get a survey. Good wiring doesn't mean that there were not unapproved alterations to a listed building which you are now liable for.

Your solicitor wouldn't need to know about the staircase, any planning searches should have automatically brought up any planning requests either approved or denied.

You seem very calm about what might be a really quite significant and costly issue

A good survey would have indicated this was a replacement staircase plus loss of a room and then maybe a follow up on legality would have ensued. If there are details of the staircase in the listing documents, or photos, you normally would be expected to replace it as if was. I would start looking for evidence. You can keep quiet of course but when you sell, someone else would get a survey!