Boiler question mid terraced house

[RM2013]

we recently moved house. During the conveyencing we did ask when the boiler was last serviced but with all the stress we had with completion I can’t recall seeing any dates or paperwork.

Not a massive issue as boiler working and we have an engineer we know that we asked to check it over for us.

we knew that the boiler may need replacing and we planned to do this with re fitting the kitchen but our engineer has said as we are mid terraced they need to check the flue running to the outside wall.

the other issue is that the boiler we have is now obsolete and he says he can’t get any spare parts for it )it’s a keston) whcih I hadn’t heard of before so he won’t be able to service it.

he seems to think that if we keep the boiler in the kitchen we will need to drill into the lounge ceiling for inspection holes under new regs? If we re locate the boiler to the rear bedroom so that the flue is vented to outside wall but I’m not keen on having boiler in a bedroom.

does anyone know anything about this? Looks like we can’t get it serviced and if something goes wrong we won’t be able to get replacement parts.

also thought on re locating boiler vs keeping in same position

We have a boiler upstairs in the box room but we don't use it as a bedroom, its perfectly safe as we would not be allowed to have it there if it wasn't. Do you use the room as a bedroom because they do sometimes make boiler noises, like the fan kicking in and stuff like that which is less noticeable in a kitchen.

Also if it upstairs make sure that the condensate pipe is very well insulated as they can freeze in very cold weather like we had before Christmas and are not so accessible to thaw out as higher up. We had ours upstairs as the kitchen is quite small and we use the box room for storage or a home office so it was the best place for it

Boiler flue regs changed and require more access. Boilers are often installed in the loft now.

We used to have a Keston boiler. We had a co pant called Stevenson Heating service ours.

I see this company carries spare parts:

greenheatuk.com

As it’s a 3 storey house we only have limited loft space so don’t think that would be an option. The bedroom is used as a bedroom and the noise etc would be my concern. In our old house we had the boiler in an airing cupboard which was between 2 bedrooms and the noise did cause issues

@dizzydizzydizzy thank you. Our engineer who is someone we’ve known for years said he tried all his usual suppliers and none of them carried the parts. Will check this out

sounds like the main issue is because we are mid terraced the boiler isn’t on an outside wall meaning the flue goes through the ceiling void and new regs state that the flue must be accessible for inspection - which ours isn’t

really not keen on the idea of boiler in bedroom because of noise plus will take up space so considering installation of inspection hatches. Unfortunately these will need to be in the lounge.

Sounds like a nightmare. Maybe try asking somebody else in case they have any other ideas. Incidentally, we were not that impressed with our Keston boilers. We had 2 of them and both had a short life.

@dizzydizzydizzy i think it’s due to the regs having changed and needing to inspect the flue. When we viewed the house we knew the boiler was probably coming to the end of its life which we budgeted for but didn’t realise it would be such a faff to actually change the boiler in like for like position!!!

Our boiler is in a cupboard in our bedroom. The noise doesn't bother us, it's pretty quiet and you get used to it really quickly.

I think this is what you need.

www.hse.gov.uk/safetybulletins/fluesinvoids.htm

In my mother's end-of-terrace house the airing cupboard and boiler were in the back bedroom with the flue going out of the back wall. I used to sleep in that room, it wasn't a great disturbance - the room was always warm and mostly the heating is off at night anyway. Just a gentle whoosh when it comes on in the morning to heat the water. I think you might find that newer boilers are quieter too.

When bought our house (semi) the boiler was an a bedroom cupboard on the party wall. It was very old, didn’t comply with current regulations and the central heating was useless. We had it all ripped out and replaced by BG. They put the boiler in the loft, but it did have to have very safe access arrangements.
When this was completed our neighbours thanked us because for years ( with the previous owners), every time the boiler fired up they heard it in their house and things rattled! Bless them they’d not made any complaint.

@GasPanic
thanks I’ve had a quick read of the link you sent. This makes sense with what our engineer has said. We have carbon monoxide alarms so know there is no immediate issue.
we were planning to change our kitchen in the next couple of months so would change boiler at same time as work being carried out.

Its not a major issue as we thought we’d have to replace boiler anyway but weren’t aware of the concealed flue issues

I wouldn't relocate the boiler (the kitchen is the best place for it in my subjective opinion) but I do wonder about where this flue is running if it's not to the external wall of the kitchen.

I understand what you mean about the ceiling void but wouldn't that mean just fitting some inspection hatches in the kitchen itself?

I personally don't like putting boilers in lofts unless there's nowhere else for it to go and I definitely wouldn't like having one in a bedroom.

The flue can’t be accessed at the moment for inspection. The boiler is on the rear wall of the kitchen but as we are mid terrace the flue runs in the ceiling void above the lounge and then vented to the outside wall at the back of the house so the inspection hatches would have to be located in the lounge I guess - unfortunately.
I agree totally would much rather have the boiler in the kitchen but it’s a shame the hatches will be in the living room

If gas servicing may be of more importance to you, but our oil boiler (35 years old) has not been serviced in at least five years, possibly longer, and just keeps going.

If you can afford a shortish notice replacement and have alternatives for heating and hot water you could just wait and see how long it lasts. My grandparents boiler was 60 years old and still going strong when they died.

This is the floor plan of the ground floor. House built approx 2006 before regs changed. The boiler is on the rear wall of the kitchen on the right hand side near the corner of the room.
we are mid terraced in a terrace of 3 so the other 2 houses have their flues on the side of the house. Ours comes out on the outside wall above the living room below the bedroom above

We're mid terrace and recently had a new boiler fitted. We had ours put in the loft with the flue going through the roof but the other option was the porch - do you have a porch? We could have had it in the back of the dining room but it would have looked ugly.

Don’t know if it’s relevant, but I’m sure the rules for flues involve them being a certain distance from opening windows.

Yes I saw that about the windows. It’s kind of in between floors and doesn’t go under the window it’s kind of out to the side. Lots to figure out when we change the boiler as clearly what we have at the moment isn’t up to current standards

Few ideas that may or may not be possible :

Loft.
Front cloakroom.
Front Dining area
Put inspection hatches in the floor of room above living room and cover with carpet

I think the loft is the ultimate solution but obviously likely to be the most expensive.

Get someone in from one of the big boys to quote on a boiler replacement as they may have some suggestions and they are hot on regulations. But be aware that might lead to them taking some action as described in the the earlier document.

I think I would want it sorted for many reasons, not just the safety issues :

i) I doubt whether you will be able to get someone to issue a cert and whats more if they do inspect they may well put pressure on you to stop using it.

ii)I doubt you'll be able to rent it without an inspection certificate and selling it you will have to hope someone misses it. There is also the question of insurance validity without boiler inspection certificate.

iii) You might not be able to get someone to service/repair it because they may not be willing to sign off on it. That means if it breaks down in the middle of winter (they always do) you could be screwed for heat for a long time.

iv) My guess is that it is probably about due for a replacement anyway if it was installed in 2006 in a new house as it's rare to see a quality boiler in a new build that lasts (no one buys a house on the quality of the boiler, as you have demonstrated!), so it makes sense to get it done all at once.

Good luck ! If it's any consolation being sold a house with a knackered boiler that you didn't check out properly is pretty common. It happened to me !

We are mid terrace. Just had a new boiler and kept it in the cupboard in the bedroom. We can’t hear the new one at all. I got use to the booster old one, but this one is silent. We do have co2 detectors which helps ease my mind.

Ideally I would prefer to have moved in down stairs, but it was a quick job. Our old one died and we needed a new one asap. Didn’t want to start ripping the kitchen out as well.

@GasPanic brilliant advice thank you. We had a basic survey on the house when we bought it but we had already spotted that the boiler wasn’t particularly new and we factored this into the list of jobs we knew we needed to do.

we bought the house to live here long term and we won’t be selling for some time or renting it out. We plan to re-do the kitchen in May so it will be changed at the same time as we are doing building works.

the engineer we usually use for servicing has quite rightly said he can’t service it or sign off a gas safe cert because of the lack of ability to check the flue in the ceiling void. Hadn’t considered inspection hatches under the carpet in the bedroom so that’s a good point.

If it breaks we have got an immersion for the hot water and would have to just make do with heaters until we can fix it.

it is one of our priority jobs so we will be getting it done within the next few months.

Can’t it go in the dining area?

@MissyB1 possibly. Although might not be as easy to hide it in a cupboard as in the kitchen end. At least this has given me some extra ideas