Help me think like a developer (family home)

[Flitterflutter]

We have moved into a new house that we planned to do work on. But I don’t think it will be our forever home. I still want to do the work (I want the house nice while I am here), but I need to not go crazy so we don’t lose money! So, questions are:

1. for five bedroom house with family bathroom and an en-suite to the new master bedroom, should we add a shower to the new toilet downstairs? (so we have 3 showers for 5 bedrooms). Or just stick to en-suite and family bathroom and downstairs toilet?

2)We are opening up and extending the kitchen and breakfast room at the back (see below!). It is north facing, and because we are doing a two storey side extension we cannot easily add light from the west. I’d this a problem? Will it be too dark? There wound a door, and big windows, but not byfold doors.

3. Should we replace the 8 foot by 8 foot white metal frame sliding door in the dining room with something else? I hate these doors because they don’t fit the 1920s house, but I would put back patio doors with side returns, but I think that is probably not the popular choice so would cost money for no return? Any other ideas? (doors below)

4. should we replace some of the double glazing (or even all)? It is old, and in some pains the double glazing has failed.

5. My DH doesn’t want too doors into the downstairs toilet. If we do add a shower, where would you put the downstairs toilet/shower? Or the downstairs toilet if we don’t add a shower?

Any other thoughts?

thanks!!!!

I’d really consider what you want/need for the time you’re there. Gone are the days of an easy flip so if you’re going to spend money spend it on what you’d like and enjoy.
I’m pro downstairs showers. But they’re not for everyone. DH goes running most days and comes back dripping in sweat and at this time of year covered in mud too. He has to walk through the house in his pants at the moment (downstairs shower on the to do list). We also have 1 DC and another on the way who gets muddy just looking at a puddle. Can’t wait until we get that done! (We live in the countryside if that’s relevant).
New, in warranty, double glazing is definitely a selling point but if it doesn’t need doing I wouldn’t bother.

Could you change the window/door in the kitchen to a set of French doors? That might help with light.
I'm assuming there's a chimney between the back living room and kitchen? The other option would be to open up the whole of the back so you benefit from the light from the room next door. Or have a set of internal doors put in between the rooms at the back so it can all be open or two separate spaces? I don't like completely open plan, but you've got the separate front room and utility etc, so you have more options.

Agree no need for two wc doors. I don't have a strong feeling on the shower, I think you need to have yourselves in mind first if you're living there. Nothing you're proposing is so radical that you'd limit your future market.

If you can replace the windows then do. You can get the blown ones fixed at a fraction of the cost though. I've done this as we can't afford new ones yet. As I renovate rooms in future I'll make a new window as part of it.

Exciting though! I love a house project.

If the kitchen is north facing , that means the boot room and utility are south. Seems a pity. Can't it be designed to reverse that?

I think that the main risk is unbalancing the layout of the house by adding an extension. currently it flows well and is centralised. I would get an architect to make sure your extension flows well into the existing space. Plus as others have mentioned it is hard to add value at the moment. A developer who owned this house would probably soer the windows, paint the inside and flip it quickly. They wouldn't be looking to do major structural work because it is so expensive at the moment.

@Geneticsbunny there is actually not as much new extension in those floor plans as you might think. Downstairs what is the utility and boot room and downstairs toilet/shower room are all an existing extension. The only new bit downstairs is a couple of meters to the side boundary and then to the back of the house. Upstairs there is more new space - there is currently a bathroom upstairs but most of it is new space.

I am a bit confused. Are the plans you posted on the original post the existing layout or the extended layout?

@Geneticsbunny They are the extended layout, but most of what is in that on the ground floor is existing. The original layout was a bit more complicated (and hard to describe 😁).

There are loads of things you (or other posters) might prefer to the current layout but thei thought a developer has ( if your house is not in prime central London) is to do as few costly layout changes as possible. Try always to identify the most cost efficient way to improve, and think how further more costly changes would affect the resale value. Usually, once you have the basics (kitchen diner with garden access, downstairs loo and utility), it's hard to achieve a higher price for anything as vague as 'better flow', 'more practical', 'more light in winter'.

I would make a few changes. Upstairs, the location of the family bathroom makes no sense as it is away from all the other bedrooms. I would swap location with this bedroom (water supply and waste can connect with downstairs shower room hopefully).

Downstairs, remove the peninsular from the kitchen as it breaks up the room and can look dated. Go with a circular or oval table instead. You may be able to fit in a small island as a result.

Change the understairs cupboard in the kitchen to a single door and make it a pocket door so it doesn’t take up space in the room.

French doors out into the garden.

Remove door to shower room from utility as it takes up valuable space and really not needed - having to lock two doors when you go to the loo is just daft.

I really would change all your double glazing if it’s old and has blown panes. Also check whether the upstairs openings meet building regs re access / escape. If you’ve got plasterers in anyway with the other building work it’s the ideal time. People see it as a big and expensive job.

I’m on my 3rd renovation of investment properties. I will always do the glazing if it needs it.

With my scribbles…..

It’s pointless putting a shower in downstairs when there’s no bedrooms down there.

Replace the double glazing all over and save money on heating. It’ll make the house look fresher too.

Do invest in a better patio door, same as above with the windows, at least it’ll be something you like for yourself.

That layout is the proposed layout @NellyBarney. currently there is no kitchen diner. In the current layout the boot room is a downstairs shower room and toilet, and the utility is all of the rest of that utility space and the proposed new toilet space. The current kitchen is long and thin, and where the proposed patio doors are, is a window and a breakfast room. The proposals extend the kitchen and open out the space to a kitchen diner. There is more additional work upstairs - addition of 5th bedroom and en-suite (and shrinking current family bathroom). That was why I wanted to check what people thought of the proposed flow, amongst other things. I have been unsure about where we move the downstairs toilet too. Although the boot room is perhaps not essential, it is one of the things I need so that my house stands a chance of being tidy 😁

Thanks so much, that is all really helpful! The under stairs cupboard is actually a small door, not sure why it is marked on the plans as double doors! So that is ticked. My husband totally agrees with you about the toilet door to the utility.

For the peninsular, at the moment the dining room seat on the other side is designed as built in. It extends the breakfast room into the kitchen space, but we wanted to make the breakfast room big enough for the piano. I will explore if an island would work. I just want one bit with extended work surfaces!

For the bathroom, someone else suggested that! I don’t want to lose a bedroom (the initial suggestion) but is it wise to move the bathroom to the south facing room with a great view (at the front), and make the north facing back room a small bedroom/study?

thanks!

We have two nice bathrooms upstairs but DH and I both choose to use the downstairs shower so as not to disturb the family with running water noises.

@FlitterflutterIf you are only using the small bedroom as a study or guest bedroom then the view really shouldn’t matter. Having good natural light in a bathroom is actually a great thing. My only concern might be privacy issues on the front of the house?

I think it’s more important to have a natural flow upstairs. If the landing wasn’t split then it wouldn’t matter so much but it just doesn’t feel it’s in the right place.

I see what you mean about the built in seating now. I don’t think it will give you exactly what you are after in terms of fitting in a piano though. Visually it’s right in front of the door as you walk in and kind of blocks the flow. You are trying to fit an awful lot into that dining / piano space.

It’s hard to tell without seeing actually kitchen designs as to how much cabinetry you would lose but I might block up the bottom part of the patio doors so you just have a window and have your built in seating and dining here (green) with some pendant lights. Alternatively put it on the wall by the living room or build into the corner. Then knock out the (purple) window and put some beautiful French doors in. Just position them so you have one 60cm cupboard to the right of your sink. That way your whole kitchen is opened up and you could fit in an island with cupboards below (blue). The current positioning just feels like you are creating corridors and cluttering the space.

Get your kitchen designer to show you 3D mock-ups- it’s so important! And please don’t trust the Wren designers. My neighbour ended up with a dishwasher that she can’t open if someone is sat in the dining chair at the table in front of it (but does if the chair is empty and pushed under).

Could the piano be recessed into the little room under the stairs with some little wall lights either side? You could put in under stairs storage from the hallway or tall cupboards in the utility if you are using it for ironing board, hoover storage etc. A pantry, however, is a big win with buyers at the moment so I wouldn’t sacrifice that if that’s the intended purpose.

Alternatively it might fit under the stairs but I’m not sure you have enough rise to fit it in unless you have an electric one (added benefit of being able to use headphones with it if needed 😂😂😂😂). The drawing labelled “your idea” shows you how cramped it would be - remember the stool needs pulling out too. Just feels like your furniture is all lined up and think about what it looks like when you walk in the room.

Personally I discount houses with downstairs showers as it gives the impression of the house being too small.
If space allowed I'd have 2 en-suites and a family bathroom plus a downstairs cloakroom.

Actually downstairs showers are a good option when they leak (which they invariably do) it will just go onto a concrete base and not rot the woodwork.

You have a huge amount of kitchen cupboards for a house of that size. With the utility room storage could you lose some and have more flexible space in the kitchen dinner?

Definitely yes to downstairs shower. We put one in, it is off the utility room which has a door to the outside, it is more used than any other bathroom. Anyone coming in from muddy walks, rugby/football/hockey, running, gardening etc just strips off and showers straight away. Dirty clothes straight in machine In utility room. Bonus: the dogs can be washed in there easily.

Yes to downstairs shower. I think about parents visiting or when I'm older and have dodgier knees, I'd rather have a ground floor bedroom and bathroom, and leave the upstairs for the fitter people in the family

I’d think about where people spend the most amount of time and try and use the best light in those rooms.

It seems a shame to have the utility, toilet, boot room on the side of the house which gets the sun - could they go at the back with a back door access if kids/dog are muddy?

How about the left hand/extended side being the kitchen diner with the kitchen overlooking the front garden and the dining room being at the back with patio doors. Utility/toilet could then go between the dining room and the reception room with a back door and it doesn’t matter if the lights not great?

Alternatively, could you go out another meter or so at the back with a single story with some roof lights in?