Lack of party wall agreement - damage to our house

[cerealchange]

Neighbours bought their house in mid 2000s and did a diy removal of an outhouse which was built onto our wall. We now have damp issues with that wall and when the outhouse was there the wall would have been protected from water ingress. These are old houses with no Dpc (mid 19th century houses). The wall would have been protected by the roof of the outhouse. The area has now been concreted over so water is leaking under the concrete and into our wall.

They removed the outhouse before we bought our side but if there was no party wall agreement and there is a damp issue with this wall- is it their responsibility? The ground level on their side of the wall is higher than on our side so we need them to remove the concrete and let it dry out but should we be paying for this or them?

This is a tricky one, is the outhouse totally separate to your house or has it been incorporated? Do we know how long ago they took their side down? What immediately jumps out is that concrete would not be the appropriate material. Surely correctly pointing the bricks would be enough? If it was a regular garden wall, you'd be responsible for the upkeep and would need to obtain agreement (which they couldn't refuse) to come around and maintain it periodically.

Do you know if the water ingress is vertical or horizontal from their higher ground? I'd be surprised if you could legally get them to pay for the whole thing OP. I'm guessing a best-case scenario would be that they split the costs with you. It's shit because although it's a party wall, technically, they haven't encroached over your side. You could try pursuing it legally but it's probably cheaper to bite the bullet and do it yourself. Did this not come up on the survey when you bought? Have you thought about calling your insurance? They might be able to press the neighbours into paying if it can be proved it's their negligence.

I guess if they concreted it over, the brickwork must've looked shitty to begin with. Their side of your wall might never have been maintained/renewed since it was built until they covered it over.

Could you take a pic & show us?

They did this work perhaps almost 20 years ago? When did you buy your house?

The wall in question is the wall to our house. They basically had a lean-to outhouse on this wall (which can be seen on plans in the 1950s) and they removed it sometime between 2005 and 2015 I think. The damp is joe coming directly into our house. I am not sure if the outhouse they removed was the original or a replacement one out there in the 1980s- I suspect that it may have been a replacement one.

The concrete is on the ground where the outhouse was and I suspect that if it was rebuilt in the 1980s, this is when the ground was built up and the concrete floor was put down. So not the concrete not their fault but the outhouse would have been protecting the wall and the fact it has been removed means that rain now lands on the concrete, seeps into cracks, into the ground and into the wall.

Am I right in thinking that demolishing against a party wall requires a party wall agreement? And that a party wall agreement involves getting in a surveyor to check if it's going to cause damage to our property? So what happens if they didn't actually do it ?

Water ingress is horizontal. They are about 30-40cm higher on that side. It was probably done about 15 hrs ago. We were aware there was some 'rising damp' when we bought but have been carrying out investigations to find out the cause of the damp and have discovered this

If you didn’t buy your house until sometime after the outhouse was demolished did you not have a survey done?

Survey just said rising damp

How long ago was this outhouse knocked down?

Sorry just read it was some time between 2005 and 2015. No, I wouldn’t expect them to be responsible and certainly not to you. Their agreement would have been with the previous owners not you anyway.

Party wall agreements aren’t really worth the paper they are written on and I’d imagine too much time has passed to prove they caused the problem. You could have to go to court, they would appoint a surveyor. It would be cheaper to just do the work.

Somewhere between 2005 and 2015

Ok thanks good info. This is what we were wondering about. We are 100% sure this is the cause of the damp but knowing who is liable to pay for fixing it is what I was wondering about. As the work needs to be done in their land as well and it is causing damage to us, I wonder how much we can force the issue as well. They will not want to spend the money I am sure. They have done other dodgy diy jobs with their guttering which has caused damage to other parts of our house- some of which we have paid for at our expense and others which we are asking them to sort.

In your shoes, because it's a direct boundary issue, I'd get a professional surveryor in to look at it from their side. And not someone from a damp company who'll push their own interests.

Thanks I may do that. We did have a zoom call with one and I showed him the area and he suggested verbally that the neighbours remove the concrete but that was a year ago- we told the neighbours but they have done nothing. With all this rain we have a lot of water ingress at the moment! Also it can't be helping the integrity of the wall.

@cerealchange pop over to the legal board & put this thread up there also. Someone might be able to tell you about the situation from a legal standpoint.

What did you say to the neighbours a year ago about removing their concrete? What was their response?

Unless you offered to arrange, pay for the work and make good their property, I'm not surprised they've done nothing.

What did the previous owners say about the damp? Did you flag it to them when you got your survey? What did the survey say - did it suggest further investigation?

Surely your buildings insurance should deal with this? At least they could give advice on the procedure to follow.

Technically they haven’t removed the party wall, it’s just exposed. It sounds like it needs pointing or silicone on it to stop seepage. But I’d have thought you’d be responsible for the wall as it’s your house wall? Unless the way it’s been taken down has removed chunks of cement and left an ingress for water, but surely it would have been like this since they did it in this case? You really need a builder/surveyor to look.

Can you confirm you have converted your ‘outhouse’ to now be part of your living space/kitchen? Whereas they pulled theirs down?

It's not our outhouse- their outhouse was leaning against our living room wall and now it has been removed, water is going though the wall into our living room. It's an old stone wall but I think there was some cement render which they removed but they said it was really damp.

The fact it was happening before we bought muddies the water a lot! But their diy jobs have caused huge damp issues for us including their diy guttering bodge job

We are resigned to the fact that we probably need to sort this but also are hoping for some contributions. I don't think buildings insurance is going to cover it if it's a long standing issue?

Survey just said rising damp- nothing about ground being higher or water coming through horizontally.