Buying house

[Viperex]

After advice on a property that has been in process with the solicitor for months . We are really close to completion when some of the enquires are left only to answer. Just on Friday these enquires were answered and one Major sticking point that has come out is the Dormer which has been there for 6 years does not have a building reg certificate . House was advertised as a 2 Bedroom, and sellers are saying to take indemnity policy . My solicitor has left it up to me whether to proceed ahead , if i do the mortgage lender would have to revalue it also. Also I'm paying 48% deposit . Any advice as what to do never purchased a house before

OP Most posters will already know what I am saying below, but you say that this is your first house purchase. So a few basics:

To the best of my knowledge, an indemnity policy won't help you very much. All they usually do is protect you from Council prosecution for going against their rules. The indemity insurers won't pay for new/remedial building work, for example. hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-buying/what-is-indemnity-insurance/

You can ask Council Building Control (usually linked to Planning Department) to come round and inspect the attic. If they think that it meets Building Regulations for rooms that are to be lived/slept in they can issue a certificate saying so. That's what previous posters mean by 'sign off'.

(Building Regs cover things like roof insulation, strength of loft-floor joists, ceiling height, size and position of windows (for fire escape), width and slope and headroom and position of stairs, firedoors and landing space at top or bottom of stairs, etc etc.
Building Control will have a published scale of fees on the Council website - I'd expect a few hundred pounds.)

But an attic is not a room to be used for living/sleeping. It's just storage space.

And as other posters have said, that's how the house is being advertised. The sellers are making it clear that the attic and dormer does not meet Building Regulations as a living/sleeping room,. They are doing nothing wrong.

However, if you choose use the attic as living or sleeping space, you might find that it invalidates your household building insurance.

If you are worried about the quality of the building work, you need to ask a surveyor whether the attic and dormer are structurally safe. If you've already had a survey done, and the surveyor raised no issues, then the attic is very probably safe as an attic but not as a living/sleeping room.

Is the dormer at the back or the front of the builing? If at the front, in some (not all) areas, planning permission might be required. But only your local planners can tell you that. Most council planners have a great deal of useful info on their websites. But you can also pay for a quick consultation; again, their website will tell you how to contact them.

Op This is an example of the very helpful guidance on planning and building regs for Dormers issued by local councils. Each council will have similar rules and regulations:

file:///C:/Users/x/Downloads/buildingregsloft_conversions.pdf

It's not unusual so please don't panic

The vendors would arrange an indemnity insurance that covers you if building regs require changes to be made

But I'd get a structural survey if I were you

If you love the house then this is not insurmountable

Would that structural survey be what is called a level 3 ? also how would they be able to tell as room is all done up .

Sorry to be clear it's for the sellers to pay for an arrange indemnity policy for you through their solicitor

We had one for past underpinning and it's not uncommon

Once dormer has been there 10 years council building regs can't take action so I wouldn't rock the boat if structural surgery says it's been well done and I'd take the indemnity policy

its been there since 2018 i had a level 2 survey done which found out nothing on whole house , but i did not specify this issue with dormer as it was not a concern then until i found out last week.

I don’t get what this thread is about, it’s being sold as 2 bed and you’ve 48 percent equity so no lender is going to say it’s worth less than half

nothing is faked here, there is no issue, they’ve not pretended it’s a bedroom it’s priced and sold as it’s not. What’s your issue exactly?

If the listing says it’s a 2 bed plus attic space the mortgage lender shouldn’t downvalue it based on this.

You could ask the seller to get building control sign off but if they are reluctant to do so or haven’t already done so, it’s likely for the reason that I’m some way it doesn’t meet the regs. This might be for a structural reason or something else, like head height or fire safety. So the posters telling you to get them to ask the council round are unhelpful.

Likewise you could get another survey but as you’ve said, it might involve moving floor coverings or wall coverings to check it is structurally sound. The vendor probably won’t be comfortable with this, not necessarily because they want to hide something but if you then pull out of the purchase you’ve moved their floor/wall.

As the seller is above board I think it comes down to you, your lender and your/their appetite for risk. It’s probably unlikely to cause you a big structural problem if you continue to occasionally use it. You might encounter issues when selling which would be my main concern, but as you’re buying it as a 2 bed it is less financial risk. The indemnity would protect you if the council asked you to reinstate it, which is very unlikely. Has your solicitor mentioned it to your mortgage lender? They might have a problem with it or want to put your offer on hold. We were in this scenario with Barclays, they put our offer on hold pending a structural survey, the vendor didn’t want this so we pulled out. AFAIK the house never sold, and we were the third potential buyers.

Also worth noting that if the council becomes aware, any indemnity will be invalid and this won’t be an option for you. So I would avoid contacting them directly and ask advice from your solicitor.

@Summersolargirl we had a 50% deposit and thought there would be no issues but the solicitor checked with the lender (Barclays) and they actually did have a problem with it!

Tiani4
The indemity policy does NOT cover the OP for any building work that might be required. Just show me an indemity policy that does that....

Lessonsin chemistry
I was trying to explain to the OP who says she does not know about such things how the system works. I was NOT advocating a Building Regs inspection.

I also said that that the sellers were being perfectly truthful and advertising the space with the dormer window as an attic. HOWEVER, even so, dormer windows DO require building regs approval (and sometimes planning permission, also). This might not matter to the OP (though I think it does) but might also matter to anyone who she might like to sell it to in future.

You say (I quote) "The indemnity would protect you if the council asked you to reinstate it, which is very unlikely". I agree that a demand for reinstatement is unlikely, but would the policy REALLY pay for all the building work necessary? I very much doubt it.

1. my issue i might later on use it as a bedroom

2,. We just found out the issue and lender does not know at the moment 3, exactly like Lessonsinchemistry said if i had a structural survey done it might move floor or other coverings which might lead to a problem with vendor.

i just dont know which way to proceed

my issue i might later on use it as a bedroom
If you do this, if anything happens (God forbid) you might find that your household insurance does not cover you. You would also be putting the sleepers at risk - building regulations are designed to try to protect people agaisnt hazards - everything from cold/dampness/mould to potentially dangerous inadequate ventilation and lack of fire escape. You'd be daft to ignore them.

2,. We just found out the issue and lender does not know at the moment

That's not an issue. The house is being marketed (I assume, and all further comments are based on this) as a 2 bedroom house with a dormer attic. That's what it is. It has an attic for storage. It would only be an issue for the lender if they had valued it as if it were a three bedroom house, which it is not. Have you at any time told them that it is??

3, exactly like Lessonsinchemistry said if i had a structural survey done it might move floor or other coverings which might lead to a problem with vendor.

The venndor is going to be asked similar questions by other prospective purchasers. If they have not got the proper planning permission/buildings regs documents then they must expect questions to be asked and surveyors to want to investigate. HOWEVER they are not selling the house as somewhere with an habitable attic. They have been truthful. If you buy the house as it is is advertised, you have no need for a surveyor lifting carpets. The only structural issues that a surveyor will need to check will be to do with the roof trusses and the dormer window.

We have also said its a 2 bedroom house.

The only structural issues that a surveyor will need to check will be to do with the roof trusses and the dormer window.

Could that then mean its safe to use later on . also when i did view it first time i did seem to me its been used as a bedroom

Has your solicitor said they are going to tell the lender? Hopefully there is no issue but as I’ve said this was not the case for us with Barclays a mainstream lender and a 50% deposit. This was a 3 bed house with 4th attic room, marketed as such so not to do with the valuation. They specifically wanted a structural survey before we could proceed and exchange but we pulled out as the vendor wouldn’t allow the survey.

Does it have an enclosed staircase or fire doors on the other rooms? Does it have good head height? Just some of the requirements for building regs sign off. You would be able to find them all on your local council website.

OP What people may or may not have done with it in the past is - I am sorry - irrelevant.

If you want to use the attic as a bedroom I suggest you get a decent, reliable builder to go and have a look at the attic and ask him how much it might cost to make it building regs compliant. A good builder will know the rules and regulations. Alternatively, you could ask a Council buildings inspector to come round and give to a list of works needing to be done to make the attic building regs compliant. You could then show that list to a builder and ask them for an estimate.

Then, once the work has been done to the council building inspector's satisfaction, he will issue you with a certificate - which you should keep very, very safe, in case you ever need to sell the house or make a claim with your insurance company.

ALL THE ABOVE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CURRENT SALE/PURCHASE. It's for the future. Your sellers have told you that the attic is being sold as an attic; nothing else. What you want to do with it in future is not their responsibility.

Once the works are doe to building regulations satisfaction, THEN the attic will be safe to use as a bedroom. Not before.

From a purely structural safety point of view, if your surveyor has looked at the dormer and roof trusses and found nothing to worry about, then that should be OK. But building regs are all about matters such as smoke inhalation and how quickly flames rise up though and open space, and that's nothing to do with structure. They are based on very worst case scenarios, but they have to be.

An insurer would be extremely unlikely to accept a claim based on 'what people have done in the past while ignoring building regulations'. So unless you follow the regulations, you do leave yourself open to being unprotected by insurance.

Lessonsinchemistry we have to as we don't know if they included the dormer in the valuation (Natwest). i really am in two minds whether to proceed or not

www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowledge/articles/2016/01/indemnity-insurance-building-regulations/