HELP Can overflowing/clogged gutters cause this much damage?

[thelma57]

I posted yesterday about getting a quote for gutter clearing as we’d had a leak and that was all we could see might be an issue. We’ve had roofers round the last couple of years since we first noticed stains and no one could actually
diagnose the issue!

I’ve now come downstairs this morning to the ceiling caved in 😭

Could the gutters have caused this over time?

Absolutely .
When I saw your pic of a bay window I thought for a moment that it was my downstairs neighbours who had exactly this .
Your pic not v clear ,is it just a bit of the ceiling that has come down?Neighbours were fitting new curtain track ,put hand up onto ceiling and whoomp,lage hole and water .
When I looked at outside of house it was clear that brickwork was completely saturated where the gutter had been leaking .
We have had gutter replaced - deeper profile to take more water and importantly re levelled so that it now slopes towards the drain pipe and not away from it .And mesh over the gutter to prevent some of the leaves collecting .
Oh and roofing felt tucked behind the gutter and under the roofing tiles to stop water overflowing down the back of the gutter .

If it is a single storey bay then this might be a good opportunity to take the rest of the ceiling for the bay down and put loads of insulation in.

I agree with pp. Leaky/blocked gutters left for a long time can cause this.

And I have a good friend who has also had roofers and roof work done but still had damp walls .They didn't notice/bother with gutter problem .

By the way have you got a flat roof over your ? Could the roof of the bay need work ?

My neighbours had a similar issue in the last couple of weeks (and we did a few years back) - we discovered an old cable that had been partially removed but had left a small hole in the brickwork and water had been pouring into through the hole without us knowing, totally saturating the wall and ceiling in our bay until it caved in too. We had roofers in, gutters replaced, downpipes checked - all sorts, but noone could find a cause until it was too late. All fixed now though. I think the previous owners had attempted to remove a cable but hasn't done it properly or finished the job.

Good luck finding the cause!

This isn't a v good pic of ours but the red circle was where the water was pouring over .It had like a little bit that stuck out at right angles to the horizontal gutter and it just couldn't handle the water .And it was also very blocked .The green circle shows how wet it was .
We do have a very big roof and the front gutter was taking a lot of water .
Have a good look at your gutters and think whether replacing is needed rather than unblocking .

Thanks all, really hoping I can get it sorted today with the gutters being cleared/assessed.

The bay roof isn’t flat, and we’ve had a total of 3 roofers who haven’t been able to see an issue. Interestingly our neighbour had a leak in the same place on his side (not connected to our roof) and it’s on the side where the down pipe is 🤷‍♀️

Just want to get to the bottom of it!

Yes, this is what often happens if you don't get gutters cleaned out each year and kept in good condition.

I recently had all gutters replaced front and back in one of my btl properties and it only cost me £550. That included cost of guttering too. That was using my regular maintenance person who gives me good prices because I give him lots of work due to having 8 btl and our own property to keep maintained.

If it’s not flat is it your flashing? The lead bit that kind of caps the gap when they build it. If it’s deteriorated and gutter blocked is it leaking back in that way.

If neighbour had it I would ask him what his issue was and how he fixed it.

We have the flashing fixed and also waterproofed early last year @LemonSwan but it could still be an issue I suppose! Will get that checked out too.

Going to speak to the neighbour later, I’m not sure they did get it fixed as it still looks like a work in progress!

You may need to bite the bullet and get the bay roof stripped off, repair the rotten/sodden timber, felt, batten and retiled. You may as well get new flashing, but maybe the existing can be retained.
Is there any damp/ingress above the bay? Also is it a cavity or solid wall?

Thanks @C4tastrophe I’m worried about full repairs until we know it’s fixed, but I suppose that could be the fix!

Not sure about the damp, it does look very wet externally underneath the gutters. The walls are solid, but they aren’t touched by the water damage, it’s just the bay roof which is a newer extension - sorry if that’s not what you meant!

The bay must be original? Looking at where the ceiling came down, it looks like it could be water running down the wall and pooling there, or the guttering in that corner. Water gets about a bit.
Also looks like the original bay windows were replaced with uPVC, so it’s possible during that work the bay roof was damaged or something.
Maybe post an external picture of the offending bay roof.

What’s the point of your post, apart from bragging you are a btl landlord?

Thanks again @C4tastrophe ahh okay, I honestly wouldn’t know! That side is where the down pipe is too so I’m hoping this is the case! Still waiting for someone to come round 🤞

I’ll try and get a photo of the outside too

I wouldn't be braggjng about that😡

A close up of the down pipe bit, and a general one of the bay roof.
If you had the down pipe blocked by rubbish, leaves, a nest etc then yes it could cause this, but there must be more to it than meets the eye if the roofer’s haven’t been able to fix it.

I've got a sun room (never too sure what to call it as it's somewhere between a conservatory and an extension) with a bay. It was leaking terribly and I ignored with it for far too long 😳 There's wood above the bay inside, rather than plaster board, so the water was able to drain out from a gap. There was loads. Had it been accumulating on plaster board, I've no doubt it would have caved like yours.

My guttering was sloping the wrong way, plus leaning in a bit. I had it replaced and they re-boarded and re-felted the bay (flat roof) and it's been fine since. No more pans 😂

I hope yours is sorted soon.

There has been SO MUCH RAIN the past few months, we sprung a leak in the exact same place as in the photo. Very unnerving to see elegant white ceiling with coving etc, with rain pouring through it onto the computer!

Roofer fixed it in a downpour, cost about £800

It’s raining atm @C4tastrophe but I’ll try and get outside in a bit! Tbh none of the roofers we had even checked the down pipe until it was pointed out to us when we had a surveyer round, it was cleared and we had very few leaks after that.

My gutter cleaner has cancelled as had my 24 call-out who were going to tarp the roof 😭
Got another roofer coming now, hopefully!

I know you're desperate, but do try and get a few quotes. I got about 6 in the end, and the differences were quite bizarre! 1 guy even asked what another guy's quote was, I told him as knew then he was a chancer so wouldn't be using him. He of course said it was really reasonable but would "do his best". He quoted 20 quid cheaper. I actually got the same work done for almost half that quote 🙄

Absolutely will @CellophaneFlower just got one for £240 just to clear the gutters and ‘find the leak’ - which we’ve been promised before!

Hi all, thank you so much for today, kept a stressed pregnant lady somewhat calm.

Just had one roofer round who said that the roof doesn’t have any felt lining at all and that’s what’s causing the rain to come right through. Does this sound right? Not got a quote yet but they’ll send through tonight. Not sure what to expect!

Going to try and get another opinion too.

Well, felt catches any drips that come through the tiles and they flow down the felt into the gutter. For hundreds of years, no roofs had felt and were fine, so no felt is not the root cause of the issue.
However, stripping off the roof, and redoing it would no doubt solve the issue. Also if you’ve had water ingress for a while maybe some woodwork is now rotten, stripping off the roof exposes all of this so you can get a good look. It’s a bit difficult to comment on.
When the windows were replaced, the fitters would have used acrows to hold up the ceiling and as such roof while they fitted the new window. Something could have happened then.
With what we know, stripping the roof sounds logical.
As the damage is already done, if you can live with the drip, I’d still get a couple of quotes before committing. Maybe pull down a bit more ceiling to expose the roof? Some of it may be lose anyhow.

Thanks @C4tastrophe I did wonder as I’ve been googling lots and that’s the general consensus!

I still think the gutters are an issues so glad that’s being looked at tomorrow. Have a couple
more roofers to call so will get some more quotes!

Hopefully it stays dry tonight 😭