Roads - how busy is too busy? Friends saying that only LTNs/closed streets are liveable...

[Housebuyingfamily]

Lots of good posts in the archive about main roads, but virtually nothing anywhere about people’s definitions and liveability “cut offs” for busy-ness.

We used to live on a London A road, just a single carriage so not the A406 or anything, but there was a vehicle every 1-2 seconds 24/7 other than say 4 am.

The experience massively affected my sleep and I was desperate to buy our new place as it’s NOT a main road or even B road. In comparison it's bliss but I'm still not happy and I need a sanity check.

To summarise the road overall:

• Peak times I can count a car every 30, max every 20 seconds, then after a "rush" that very quickly drops away. Sustained peak might be 40 minutes like that only such as school pick up time.
• There are large chunks of every day where traffic is very quiet - say a car every 2-3 minutes in the mid afternoon. During these lull times, you can literally walk in the middle of the road.
• The road is residential but long (0.4 mile?) and straight and has many turn offs to side streets. The house is near one of these cross junctions.
• There are no double yellows so cars park outside houses e.g. it's a genuine residental street. There are however a few speed bumps near the junctions, so near our house.
• Although there are the “side streets”, they also have a fair bit of traffic as the whole area is very car dependent (families and cultural reasons.)
• The road is long but eventually it does connect with a A road on one end, to a B road on the other end, albeit with restrictions e.g. one way in.
• There aren’t thousands of cars cutting through, but GPS apps like Waze definitely send people through as a cut through which is annoying.
• There is no bus route and virtually no lorries or goods traffic.
• The road is virtually completely silent after say 12pm until 7 am.
• There’s a primary school and higher education college a bit further down.

What’s your view? Would you describe that as typical, busy, liveable for Z3 London?

Some friends of ours who live on LTNs / closed streets were pretty harsh, saying that the road "definitely isn't quiet" and they would never live on a normal open street in London. That was pretty hurtful as honestly I’ve become pretty obsessed by this, to the point I count the cars as you can see! I've convinced myself that they might be right, and we have a situation where "naice" areas and houses have LTNs / closed streets protected by residents...

All thoughts greatly appreciated!

Sorry, typo, I meant the road is virtually completely silent after say 12 midnight until 7 am.

It depends. I live on a busier road than I used to, probably similar to yours in terms of traffic (although we also get odd bus or lorry). But house is set further back than old house. Also old house was on junction which slowed traffic but seemed to make it noisier / more noticeable.

I know lots of people would hate it but when I (or my DDs) are walking home, I like that it is well lit and busier. And I am rarely disturbed by traffic at night. But I wouldn't call my road quiet, which I think is your question....

What's a LTN?

I'd say you live on a busy street, but perfectly standard in a big city.

Low Traffic Neighbourhood, basically roads that are blocked at one or both ends to prevent cars cutting through.

I don’t understand what you want people to say. It is a busy road yes. It is not as busy as your previous road. It is more busy than a ltn/closed road.

everyone has different tolerance levels. And they are allowed this. If you find it acceptable then it doesn’t matter if anyone else would not wish to live next to it.

It sounds typical but busy and yet I would also agree with your very rude to say it to your face friends. We’re in zone 2 and our road is short and also sort of loops back on itself, meaning you can’t use it as a cut through and it doesn’t lead anywhere so we maybe get a car about every 20-30 minutes. I don’t care about the traffic so much as the ease of parking, and no one parks here unless they live here..

We used to live on a narrow London street between two main roads that was used as a ratrun by lazy-ass drivers who wanted to shave a minute or so off their journey.

It had 'sleeping policemen' which made no difference at all. Speeding drivers at all hours. Blaring horns. Even a police car chase with a firearm discharged 😦

It became one of the first LTN streets and turned into absolute heaven. Kids playing out. Street parties. Became a lot easier to chat to neighbours. The local school used our street for cycle training. When we eventually left London one of the main criteria was that our new home had to be well away from a main road.

We couldn't live on a 'through road' again. They only get busier unless physical restrictions are brought in.

Some friends of ours who live on LTNs / closed streets were pretty harsh, saying that the road "definitely isn't quiet" and they would never live on a normal open street in London

but why is this harsh? It definitely isn’t quiet. You know this. It is just quieter than your last road. And it’s ok if they don’t want to live on an open street in London. It’s lovely if they don’t have to if they don’t wish to.

I can’t see how any of this is harsh?

I'm intrigued about the 'cultural reasons' for being very car dependent.

Could be worse, because of the LTNs pushing traffic out of ‘neighbourhoods’, traffic has just about trebled on my road. It’s so much worse than it used to be as so many LTNs now open out onto our road, driving more traffic onto it because people are avoiding previous cut throughs / now LTNs.

I think your obsession with it is the issue rather than the road itself. As others have said different people have different tolerances. Who cares what your friends (rudely) say. Unless you're extremely rich then buying a house involves some sort of compromise - especially in London. What you are prepared to compromise on is personal

I can understand why you feel hurt, I would too. I lived in a flat for many years but now in a house. I'd never say to a friend (or anyone else for that matter) who I knew lived in a flat not by choice "oh I could never live in a flat again". It's just inconsiderate.

You're happy and the noise doesn't bother you. Next time they say it I'd answer with some positives, like you feel safer hearing a bit of life outside, you prefer coming home when the streets are busy etc, or that when it's too quiet it unsettles you.

I used to live on a main road, never again. From now on only non through roads or roads that go nowhere.

Thanks for all the replies. To the person asking what I want to hear, just opinions as I said, as a sanity check. I of course know the road isn’t quiet and it obviously does bother me, but I wasn’t sure if I was being irrational. Seems not as everyone agrees it’s a busy or busy-ish road, which in some ways makes me feel better as at least I’m not crazy.

Part of me then thinks, like someone else said, that it’s all to be expected in London and isn’t out of the ordinary. But the other part of me looks with envy with at very quiet roads that have been described above, and wishes someone had been bluntly honest with us before we bought. Even estate agents, who will use any sales angle, don’t really make a big deal about it! I don’t think any of them ever really mentioned or advertised houses being on LTNs or school streets, or even one way streets.

it is fairly busy but not as bad as an A road.

have you got good double glazing? can you plant a tree in the front garden which gives sound insulation (it makes a big difference). and ask the council for more street trees too.

otherwise, you have to learn to live with it. counting cars and hating them is only going to add to your stress. if you can find ways to ignore the cars and focus on the good points of your house, that will be better for you in the long run.

I live rurally and have moved from a 1 car every 2-3 minutes to 1 every minute. But with double glazing I haven't noticed the difference at all. I only noticed in the garden the other day because the road is past the garden rather than the house IYSWIM. But it's a lovely house in a lovely village and I haven't once heard the traffic when in bed and the bedroom overlooks the garden (maybe 15m to the road).

I think different people live with different levels. I stayed at a friend's house in the summer and the bloody sheep in the field woke me up!! I thought I'd love looking over fields with sheep in them but nope. Literally would rather have the traffic I've described!

There is also the pollution aspect to consider.

You don’t need to live in an LTN, but if you lived on a side road you would have much less traffic.

We live in a flat down a short side street off a major road in South London, and we don’t have any kind of rush hour. No cars at all for much of the day. Or my DBro lives in an ex-council flat in a low rise block which is set back from the road in a courtyard - again, no adding traffic. Both Z2. So it depends on what kind of house you are looking at, and how much the traffic bothers you.

I'm not sure what you're looking for op. Of course it's 'livable' - many people have no problem with traffic or traffic noise and live happily on that road and far busier roads.

Personally, I think a road where at peak times there's a car every 20 seconds sounds like a nightmare. It's far too busy for my liking and I'd not even consider any house in such a street.

But that's me. Plenty of others feel differently and have different priorities. No one can make the decision for you.

Some of the comments on this thread....oof.

I don't think your road sounds "busy" OP. I wouldn't describe it as a quiet road, but I guess somewhere in between?

A car every 30 seconds for a 40 minute period every day, with no traffic after midnight and only a car every few minutes for the rest of the day is not what I would class as a busy road whatsoever. No probs with people who think otherwise - we all have own perspective on these things.

I'm about to move across the road from a primary school. That would be some people's idea of hell - it doesn't bother me. And I know that for a fact as I've lived opposite a primary school before.

Your lovely house on a quasi-busy road OP probably has some benefits that it wouldn't have if you'd paid to live on a properly quiet street. Maybe it's bigger, maybe it's more affordable, maybe the garden is bigger etc. Some LTN or closed roads are a nightmare for break-ins/burglaries etc because they're so quiet. There are pros and cons to everything.

A phrase that I absolutely love is "comparison is the thief of joy". Forget what others say - do you love your house and are you happy there? No matter where you live there will ALWAYS be someone who has something that's "better" in some way. Stop comparing your home to what's around. If you're happy, then stop counting cars and relax.

I live on a much busier road than you and it doesn’t bother me. It’s a main bus route so great for transport. I’ve never counted cars but definitely lots, lots more than you have - I often have to wait to cross. I know some other people would not choose to live here. That’s ok. I love my house. I might not choose to buy their houses. That’s ok too. We all make our own decisions on what matters most to us when we buy a house. I agree your friends are quite rude but wouldn’t dwell on what they think - just enjoy your new home.

"I don’t think any of them ever really mentioned or advertised houses being on LTNs or school streets, or even one way streets."

Being in an LTN was listed as a feature by the EA when we were selling our house. Not everyone would see it as a benefit, but our buyers definitely did - and so did many of the viewers according to EA feedback. The LTNs and other infrastructure make it much easier to live without a car, which appeals to a lot of folk where we lived.

Depends where you are though. Waltham Forest is known for LTNs and bike lanes and seems to attract a demographic that likes them, and EAs market accordingly.