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Original poster

Reducing offer last minute AIBU

35 replies

Potatomashed · 13/12/2022 10:49

Would welcome any thoughts on this.

TLDR; Prev full asking price offer. Issues now identified. Mortgage lender iffy, seller keen to complete. 80% cash offer (All our money) rejected. Not willing to negotiate on price now. AIBU to not buy at full price?

We are buying a property which needs quite extensive work (not structural but new windows, doors, kitchen, bathrooms, rewire etc). We didn’t get a survey due to the renovation required already and no visual signs of movement or repair to anything.

We were hoping to complete before Christmas (offered mid October, paid priority fee with solicitor as requested by seller) my but last week the solicitor discovered in the conveyancing process that the loft room ( approx 20 years old conversion, velux windows, finished walls, accessed with space saving step stairs, sold with photos of bed and desk in) doesn’t have building regs sign off. Neither does the retrofitted brick chimney breast and log burner. Also just found out that the oil tank and it’s base need replacing for c£2k.

The high street mortgage lender is umming and aching if it is willing to lend on the property and holding everything up.

We offered 80% of the asking price as cash to go through asap but this was rejected. Seller saying they aren’t willing to negotiate at all.
we don’t feel that we are offering on the same property we viewed, it has risk re structure, council coming after us to bring up to regs, party walls etc. We will have building regs round for the work that we are doing so they may well ask us to bring it up to scratch.

Estate agent keeps muttering about indemnity policies but this is invalidated as soon as we do work to the house anyway so offers little protection. Obviously the next step is a survey but there seems little point if the seller won’t negotiate…

Do we buy the house?

OP posts:
RidingMyBike · 13/12/2022 10:59

What's the difference between what you're offering now vs full asking price? Presumably the house was valued by EA taking into account the work that needs doing so to drop 20% is a lot and makes you look cheeky.

We bought a similar house in the summer.

Original poster
Potatomashed · 13/12/2022 11:14

RidingMyBike · 13/12/2022 10:59

What's the difference between what you're offering now vs full asking price? Presumably the house was valued by EA taking into account the work that needs doing so to drop 20% is a lot and makes you look cheeky.

We bought a similar house in the summer.

About 50k. The reason it’s so much is because that’s how much cash we have so it was really an offer for convinience if the seller was so desperate to be out by Christmas… Think we would be happy with 30k below asking if the mortgage lender is ultimately willing to lend (which remains to be seen!).

How is your house coming along? Are you happy with the decision? Did you pay full price?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/12/2022 11:16

Those are significant changes you've lost a whole room!!

Are you prepared to walk away if they don't come down by £30k

Flapjackquack · 13/12/2022 11:18

Have they marketed it and priced it with the loft room included as a bedroom? If so I’d walk away unless they lower the price.

Skiphopbump · 13/12/2022 11:19

Are the sellers buying somewhere else? If so they may be unable to accept your low offer.

piemaggedon · 13/12/2022 11:20

Many houses are bought with many faults. It's pretty much sold as seen beyond title matters. If the property was perfect, they would have put it on the market for a higher price.

Ask another estate agent if sales have dropped off a lot in that same area, if they have then chip the price. Just be aware that you might lose the deal completely. If you love the house, don't risk it, either buy it at offered price or take 5% or maybe 10% off.

You definitely need a survey though, and with those issues you're aware of already, you need a thorough survey, not just the cheapest.

I would get the survey, cost up all of the issues (not bathroom and windows etc though as they were obvious) just the ones you uncovered. They adjust the price accordingly. If you string it out a bit, they might be so keen to move they accept you're reduced offer.

There's always the risk you lose the deal.

Mildura · 13/12/2022 11:26

council coming after us to bring up to regs, party walls etc. We will have building regs round for the work that we are doing so they may well ask us to bring it up to scratch

The council only have 12 months following the completion of the work to take enforcement action, which has long since past. There is no way in the world there is the risk of them coming after you.

However, you will need to be comfortable that the loft was done reasonably safely, any major concerns should be evident after 20 years.

I am amazed a lender has an issue with a 20yr old loft conversion. Within last 10 years would be different. I wonder where they consider their cut-off point to be?

indemnity policies but this is invalidated as soon as we do work to the house

That's not entirely accurate. But you are spot on, the indemnity is next to useless in this situation. It only protects you from enforcement action being taken by the local authority. Chances of which happening are slightly less than zero.

yikesanotherbooboo · 13/12/2022 11:30

If the loft fulfils building regs It might just be a case of the inspector visiting and signing off. If it doesn't and the house was marketed as having that room then it isn't worth the asking price.
Oil tank etc I would take as one of those things if repairing it isn't an emergency.
£50,000 sounds like a large proportion of the house value although , as above, if it was incorrectly marketed that makes all the difference.

Movinghouseatlast · 13/12/2022 11:35

The council won't 'come after you' on a 20 year old loft conversion. It is only when you sell.that it's an issue. Unless it's in a bad state of repair you haven't lost a room as others suggest. You still have a room but without building regs sign off.

It sounds to me like you simply want a bargain.

pattihews · 13/12/2022 11:43

You're being cheeky. Just because they didn't get it signed off by building regs doesn't mean there is anything structurally wrong or that you've 'lost a room' as someone said upthread. The cost of putting what you've listed right isn't going to cost more than 10k even if it's worst case scenario. They can pay to have Building Regs sign off and then put it back on the market.

You've said that you didn't bother with a survey because there was no sign of structural issues. Nothing's changed. And I don't believe that if you've got 80% cash that any lender would um and er over lending you 20%. Whatever happens, even if there are problems and the market drops significantly, their 20% will still be safe.

You remind me of the time we got to exchange of contracts on my first-ever flat sale and the buyer offered 20% less.

Toomanysleepycats · 13/12/2022 11:48

We’ve just had an extension signed off by building regs. The extension was built in 2008.

The only thing holding it up was a bannister rail, which my husband has finally fitted.

Can you ask the owners to get sign off? If they can’t and nothing can be done unless they tear down the room, then it’s got one less bedroom than advertised (technically), which could be argued justifies a large price drop.

On the other hand if you love the house, it doesn’t look like you’ll lose the room. It only becomes a problem if/when you sell.

Bodgejobvendors · 13/12/2022 11:49

Disagree you’re being cheeky. Without sign off neither you nor the lender know whether the loft can be classified as a room. The price difference is significant. If it’s compliant then it’s not difficult for the owners to get retrospective sign off.

winniepigdog · 13/12/2022 11:54

This is why you have a survey - all of the problems would have been highlighted and suggestions made to check building regs on loft (notorious for not having proper planning/regs in place).
House buying is a nightmare.
Good luck.

RidingMyBike · 13/12/2022 11:54

They could get building regs sign off themselves? Either way, if you still like the house I'd get a proper survey done, then you have a much better idea what you're dealing with. And something to bargain with - the £2k for the septic tank is probably feasible, but £50k drop is a lot.

Yes, we bought v similar sounding house in the summer at 1% above asking price. We're currently doing renovation to get it up to scratch. It's worth it as there's no way we'd get a house of this size in this location otherwise. We started looking to buy a year ago and there simply hasn't been anything comparable come on the market. But it's also our 'forever' house so in the context of hoping to live there for a couple of decades it makes sense.

So it also depends whether you're prepared to walk away without the house - is anything else similar on the market? How long would you be planning to live there for?

RidingMyBike · 13/12/2022 11:56

Also, how are you planning to pay for the renovation work if all of your money has gone into a cash offer?

MrsSkylerWhite · 13/12/2022 11:57

That’s a big drop. Houses are usually priced according to condition.
we’ve owned six over the years. I would decline your offer. Cash/mortgage would be irrelevant to us and to most buyers I imagine.

backinthebox · 13/12/2022 12:00

What kind of a loon buys a house without getting it surveyed? The house is not a different house to the one you initially offered on, it’s the same house only someone has now pointed out stuff you had not understood. You are the unreasonable one for lowering your offer now the penny is dropping.

Flapjackquack · 13/12/2022 12:23

Bodgejobvendors · 13/12/2022 11:49

Disagree you’re being cheeky. Without sign off neither you nor the lender know whether the loft can be classified as a room. The price difference is significant. If it’s compliant then it’s not difficult for the owners to get retrospective sign off.

Agree with this completely. I can’t just shove a velux in my roof and call the loft a bedroom. There is a reason loft conversions cost a lot. I wouldn’t be paying for a 4 bed house when it’s a 3 bed plus loft with a window and some flooring. You should have got a survey though.

Mildura · 13/12/2022 12:27

Flapjackquack · 13/12/2022 12:23

Agree with this completely. I can’t just shove a velux in my roof and call the loft a bedroom. There is a reason loft conversions cost a lot. I wouldn’t be paying for a 4 bed house when it’s a 3 bed plus loft with a window and some flooring. You should have got a survey though.

Show quote history

But that's not necessarily the case here, too little info to be confident either way.

A loft conversion that doesn't have sign-off doesn't necessarily mean it's unsafe, or unable to be used as a bedroom. There are a number of reasons why the certificate does not exist.

As is often the case with property related matters, a great deal more detail is necessary in order to accurately give advice.

Flapjackquack · 13/12/2022 12:32

Mildura · 13/12/2022 12:27

But that's not necessarily the case here, too little info to be confident either way.

A loft conversion that doesn't have sign-off doesn't necessarily mean it's unsafe, or unable to be used as a bedroom. There are a number of reasons why the certificate does not exist.

As is often the case with property related matters, a great deal more detail is necessary in order to accurately give advice.

Show quote history

Yes I was agreeing with a poster who said there was no way of OP or the lender knowing if it was safe or not. But they can’t market it as a bedroom with no sign off so if they have, OP is paying the price for a house with one less legal bedroom regardless of its safety. I wouldn’t be relying on the previous owner’s say so.

MaggieFS · 13/12/2022 12:37

Bodgejobvendors · 13/12/2022 11:49

Disagree you’re being cheeky. Without sign off neither you nor the lender know whether the loft can be classified as a room. The price difference is significant. If it’s compliant then it’s not difficult for the owners to get retrospective sign off.

This is what I would expect. I wouldn't be taking a chance on something so significant to the size and value of a house.

Geriatricmama · 13/12/2022 13:00

My god people are funny about older extensions on here?

Council are not going to care less, ours wouldn’t even come out at look at it.
You need it surveyed so you know it’s structurally sound and then an indemnity, which will mean sod all but the sellers should pay anyway.

It’s been there 20 years, I’m sure it’s fine.

WoolyMammoth55 · 13/12/2022 13:01

Hi OP, with regards to the loft, can you put in a call to the relevant building regs team and see what the timeframe would be for them to send someone to inspect?

I dealt with our local building regs team when we were renovating our home a couple of years ago and they were great to deal with - phone answered quickly by real humans who obviously enjoyed their jobs and were happy to answer queries.

If they have someone in the area and could pop in to have a look then it is surely in everyone's interest for the vendors to agree to that? It saves you the cost of a survey at this point if you are 50/50 on whether to proceed.

I think you need to know how much the remedial costs would be to get the loft up to regs - only by knowing that can you decide the price at which it's worth it to go ahead, and the building regs team might not give you a figure but they cold give you an outline of works required which you could then cost up.

Best of luck.

Geriatricmama · 13/12/2022 13:03

If you tell the council then the indemnity is invalid.

Mildura · 13/12/2022 13:08

Geriatricmama · 13/12/2022 13:03

If you tell the council then the indemnity is invalid.

But the indemnity is pointless.

The only event it insures you against is something that is simply never going to happen.