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Please help us navigate survey findings!

9 replies

DSBuying1stHome · 12/12/2022 23:33

My DS is buying his first home and has had a full structural survey done. There are a couple of things on the survey that we aren't sure about and I offered to ask for a view from the wise people of MN! We know that surveys will pick up on everything and surveyors have to cover their backs, but we are not sure how worried to be about any of this.

There is some movement reported throughout the property - it is referred to as "slight" but seems to have affected a window at the back of the house, and the whole front of the house seems to have dipped/sunk(?) causing slightly sloped floors in the hall, front room and front bedroom. There has also been damp found in that room and it seems unclear whether or not these things are related (see below). Overall, I am getting the impression that the movement is old and unlikely to be an issue, however it also says the it could be related to deterioration of the timber (and/or the damp) under the floor which obviously they can't check.

The damp is described as rising damp and is in one room (front room) and in patches. Separately the surveyor mentions limited ventilation to the front of the house (back has solid floors) but doesn't mention this as a possible cause for the damp. It's suggested most likely cause is debris build up in cavity, cavity wall insulation, or partial failure of the DPC.

The surveyor suggests asking the vendor whether any inspections or work has been done to the timbers and whether there has been cavity wall insulation which DS will do, but obviously also said that an inspection should be carried out involving removing bricks and/or flooring which I don't think the vendor is likely to agree to!

How worried should DS be about this? Or is this fairly normal for this age of house? Movement along the whole front of the house and a "distorted" window, plus damp, make me nervous! But I get the overall impression from the survey wording that there isn't too much of an issue, although they are also marked as "3" = elements requiring urgent attention.

If you'd like to dig in (!!!!), I've copied below the relevant text from the survey below:

"However, scattered patches of rising damp were detected in the plaster of the front and flank wall faces in the front lounge but none was evident in the party wall with the immediately adjoining property or to any of the internal partition walls in this room. This might suggest either a degree of bridging or some localised deterioration in the original damp-proof courses in this part of
the property and this would not be unusual in a building of this age. Equally, it is sometimes found that debris in the wall cavities causes bridging in localised spots over the damp-proof courses and simply clearing away any such debris can resolve the problem. Removal of one or two bricks in the
external wall base as an initial investigatory action is therefore often prudent to check the physical condition of the wall cavities and the damp-proof courses. There is also no obvious evidence to suggest secondary thermal insulation has been inserted in the external wall cavities in the form of infilled drill holes etc. but enquiry of the vendor would still be prudent to check whether any such material has been inserted."

"However, the south-facing rear gable wall does show some
evidence of a greater degree of deterioration with traces of old cracking including distortion to the first floor rear extension bedroom window where one or two bricks have also been replaced and also one or two cracks and rough areas of pointing. In terms of condition of the cavity wall ties, this
would be a wall face worth investigating further by removal of one or two bricks to check condition for any significant corrosion development problems and also allowance for at least some repair. One or two bricks are also quite rough and replacements might therefore be prudent.

We will note in a later section of this report that there are some indications to the internal partition walls and areas of the floors of a degree of slight historic structural movement. As noted, this is partly evident in the rear gable bedroom window arch externally but also shows to some of the internal partition walls. Inspection of the external wall faces overall, however, revealed no major cracks or substantial distortion problems to suggest progression now or likely to be evident to any appreciable extent in the reasonably foreseeable future. The property has, however, undergone substantial works in the relatively recent past including a large rear extension, roof void conversion etc. all of which will have resulted in some redistribution of structural loading paths through some of the elements of the building. It can sometimes take a few years after such works for complete stabilisation of a structure to be achieved and you may notice therefore one or two small cracks etc. appearing in the years to come meriting a degree of pointing up and attention."

"We have previously noted the relatively modest external subfloor ventilation
provision in the base of the external walls. The solid floor of the kitchen, cloakroom and the high front path level adjacent to the front door are further areas that will restrict air movement through the subfloor pit. There is little that can be done to improve this situation and further comment with regard to the timber floors at ground floor level will be made in a later section of this report."

"Provision for ventilating the voids under the suspended timber ground floor room floors is modest with only one or two vents in both the front and main side walls. The solid floors of the single-storey rear extension also effectively block any potential through flow effect and further comment with regard to the floors will be made in a later section of this report. For current purposes, provision of one or two additional vents would be worth considering whilst those in the front wall base are also partly sunk beneath external ground level which will further reduce their effectiveness and could potentially encourage a degree of rain seepage in certain circumstances."

"The front lounge floor is reasonably firm underfoot but, as noted previously, does not appear to be completely level with a slight slope down towards the front as far as can be determined in the
presence of furniture in the room at the time of inspection. This may simply be a result of slight
movement in the structure of the building as a whole over the years as discussed previously but,
equally, can sometimes be due to a degree of developing weakness in floor timbers due to
deterioration problems. With the presence of dampness noted in the previous section of this report
in the walls of the lounge in some areas, there is some risk of decay developing in the floor timbers
and we consider it would be prudent to allow for lifting of one or two of the boards in order that the
subfloor pit can be properly inspected and checked and the floor timbers as well. Initially, however, enquiry of the vendor may be prudent to ascertain whether in fact any precautionary inspection has been made as part of the general refurbishment and upgrading works to the property as it is not
unusual to find that although floors are not level or may be in areas where a little dampness etc. could be present, the floor timbers themselves are in fact free of deterioration or defect, or indeed may have been repaired or partly replaced. Inspection would also enable a check to be made on the timbers for any indications of activity by woodboring beetle"

Thank you if you've made it this far!!

Appreciate any help or advice on this.

OP posts:
Seeingadistance · 13/12/2022 01:29

Hmmm.... I'm not a surveyor, but have bought and sold a few houses and flats over the years, most of which were over 100 years old. I'd be quite concerned about this survey and definitely would want to have a chat with the surveyor for any advice or suggestions.

How old is the building?

Is it priced to reflect its condition?

DSBuying1stHome · 13/12/2022 03:20

Seeingadistance · 13/12/2022 01:29

Hmmm.... I'm not a surveyor, but have bought and sold a few houses and flats over the years, most of which were over 100 years old. I'd be quite concerned about this survey and definitely would want to have a chat with the surveyor for any advice or suggestions.

How old is the building?

Is it priced to reflect its condition?

Thank you so much for reading and replying.

OK so we are not over worrying then!

I'm not sure it is priced for its condition. I'll get DS to consider this.

It was built in 1890. Extended in 2020. In good decorative condition. A few other more minor things were mentioned in the survey though that suggest that maintenance to outside hasn't always been done.

OP posts:
SchrodingersKettle · 13/12/2022 04:08

I haven't a lot of experience but this would worry me too. There are an awful lot of maybes.

If further assessment would help, I'd weigh up how much would it cost and the if you think it is worth it, ask the vendor. There is no harm asking, and if they want to sell they might be happy to oblige.

Personally for a first time buy (not a forever home?) Id be thinking about resale potential - when you come to sell in 5 years, your buyers may get a similar survey, and be similarly spooked. It's an old house so of course it will have its issues but a regular buyer, like you or I, will be really put off by a survey that questions structural soundness.

Netaporter · 13/12/2022 04:38

Hi @DSBuying1stHome i’m with @Seeingadistance on this one as this is beyond the usual arse-covering comments you’d find in a survey so I’d go back to the surveyor. I’m also not a surveyor but I also develop houses and in the middle of a renovation of a property of a similar age which has none of the issues mentioned in his survey so they’re not comments typical for the age of the property and your concerns I think are valid. Distorted floors on a much older house would be more common so this would be cause for concern. You’ll need to advise your DS that it’s great he’s had the survey done as finding out now is better than discovering once he’s committed £000’s more but he should proceed with caution, if at all. My immediate thoughts are there are two issues:Firstly, the damp and integrity of the floor structure and subsequent development works added possibly without rectifying the damp/distortion cause. Secondly, the distortion itself and that the house may have had issues not rectified before it was extended etc and this may also have exasperated the situation. If this is the case, and a claim is required for subsidence at a later date, the buildings insurance may be an issue (and may not pay out) if inappropriate works have been carried out after the original construction which then affect the structural integrity to fail. In the event of a claim, they may also want to see the survey…

It’s possible the vendor bought the property ‘done’ but a cheap but nice-looking renovation in 2020 or has done the works to add value so look at the purchase history for the property. In this situation I’d be getting your DS to put the agent on notice that there are issues and if possible he’d like sight of the vendor’s survey from when they purchased it? That way he’d know if the issues were identified previously. Or to just walk away. Yes, they could price in remedial works but they are likely to be invasive and messy.

DSBuying1stHome · 13/12/2022 12:01

Thanks so much @Seeingadistance @SchrodingersKettle @Netaporter for your really helpful replies. I have relayed that all to DS and he is going to discuss further with surveyor as a first port of call, with a view to then putting the agent on notice of potential issues/requesting a copy of survey as @Netaporter suggests.

OP posts:
Geneticsbunny · 14/12/2022 17:10

How old is the house?

CamillasToe · 14/12/2022 17:55

Also get m your DS to ask the surveyor to provide an estimation of what it would cost to repair/conduct the investigations. Ask for the quote in writing. Then he will get a sense of the scale of the work and he can then submit it to the vendor to start negotiations for a price reduction.

manateeandcake · 14/12/2022 19:55

I am in the process of trying to sell a Victorian house and buy another one, both in London, and I wouldn't necessarily be too alarmed by this survey though would definitely do further investigations. Our current house shows some signs of slight movement, it varies according to the season and is very normal in houses of this age at least in the area we're in.

Both our house and the house we are hoping to buy have some small areas of damp on the ground floor as highlighted by the surveys. These are not serious, but we have agreed with our buyers to a small reduction for further damp proofing and will be asking for the same from our sellers.

In the house we are trying to buy, the surveyor noted that the floor in the entrance hall slopes down. He suspects that this is due to wet/decayed timber in the under floor joists in this spot due to water getting in through an air vent. Luckily the house has a cellar so these joists are easy to access. We are getting this investigated by a specialist next week and will probably be asking for a reduction based on their estimate of the cost to replace these joists. It's a bit of a pain, but totally fixable.

Having a conversation with the surveyor about it really helped me to understand the situation and to work out what was essential to investigate/address and what was less urgent.

WuTangGran · 15/12/2022 02:37

Might be worth getting it surveyed again by this company, who have much to say about so-called “rising damp”:
www.heritage-house.org/building-surveys/building-condition-surveys.html

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