UK house prices post biggest fall since October 2008 - Halifax data today Weds 7th Dec

[jimmyjammy001]

Just a quick note for anyone looking to buy, in particular first time buyers who run the extreme risk of running into negative equity if buying with a low deposit

UK house prices post biggest fall since October 2008

Also its important to note that "Property prices are up more than £12,000 compared to this time last year, and well above pre-pandemic levels (+£46,403 vs March 2020). "

I suspect there will be bigger falls yet still to come as well

And yes, I'm still so happy to be a homeowner rather than renting!

*smaller mortgage

yes maybe if I have hung on this year I might of paid less money but then so with the people who bought my house and so on down the chain. The person that probably over paid if we’re being honest is at the bottom who was a landlord who no doubt has made an extraordinary amount of money out of property in the first place.

I’ve never met anyone who is happy renting ever. We had to do it when we lived abroad for awhile. It was really shit. And then I had to do it for a short time after my divorce, again really shit.

And now I rent out a property and for the tenants, I fully appreciate it is really shit when they ask me if they can decorate their children’s room and the answer is no. Can I change the flooring for laminate because it suits us better, no and I expect you to look after the carpets and if you don’t I will charge you for them. And when it suits me to sell the house I will.
No part of that is enjoyable for anyone.

I used to love renting before kids, but it was a 'renters' market back then. There are good and bad rentals, good and bad landlords. But if you get a good one that actually fixes stuff, and has good taste, it's great.

If I could get secure 5 year rentals I would do it again with kids in a heartbeat.

@lassingd trouble is, 5 year secure rentals aren't the reality for about 99.9% of rentals.

Btw I didn't mind renting when I was young, single, had few belongings and rented furnished flats. I'd find it a bloody nightmare with kids, school locations to consider, furniture removals and a cat.

True, but that's a UK politics issue, not an inherent flaw of renting vs owning.

In the UK politics revolves around keeping homeowners happy, including landlords, and improving renter rights doesn't win elections. Not in the UK anyway.

That will hopefully change in future. The long distant future

This is a good example of why laws have to move in favour of renters away from owners.

Note sure where you rented abroad, but in many countries renters can replace a kitchen, let alone decorate a kids room.

If you leave it to homeowners to decide you have ridiculous situation where a homewoner wont alloa childs room to be decorated. Which frankly is immoral on your part

The problem is if they decide to decorate that Childs bedroom in blue, for example, and my next tenant has two girls. It’s going to be up to me to paint it back to Magnolia to show them around the property. Otherwise the mother of two girls might not want the house and then of course we have to agree to her painting it pink.

With varying levels of DIY skills being on display here.
Given that without fail, every tenant, theres been three have left the house, needing a £500 deep clean from top to bottom that I couldn’t deduct from their deposit because cleaning is such a contentious issue.

The damage always without fail, exceeds the deposit.

I lived renting for many years.

Yeah i could have made money on property but i missed that boat in the 80’s and 90’s. Just made money by investing in equities and funds instead.

But i had an amazing landlord that left me alone, occassional call now and then (1 a year) £25 increase a year…. I didn’t hold them to ‘legal standards of this or that’ if something didn’t work i got it sorted cheap and quick, and then told them and they just told me to take it off next months rent if that was ok.

I got lucky.

As for house price decreases, i an a first time buyer, cash, looking for a forever home and am seeing properties on the market for 6 months no movement, and others price decreases of 10-15% on rightmove now. Still hefty profits being made even though prices are not at their peak, when you check out what they were bought for in 2000’s. Also suspect we will see a raft of interest only repayers coming to the end of their fixed terms over the coming months, at the upper end of the market which might affect the rest of the market. There will be instances of 30% decreases, i don’t think that will be the norm, but it depends how long interest rates keep getting raised and how long the recession lasts and whether or not jobs get culled anything like in 2007/8.

It’s all crystal ball stuff, but one thing i don’t do is believe Halifax and Nationwide to produce anything independant or that could speed up any decline of their asset values.

It's unsurprising landlords seek to minimise costs. Which is why this needs to be regulated.

Tenants should have the rights to alter properties in my view.

If this means margins are lowered to the point where the business is untenable, then sell it.

They do alter it, its never for the better 🤦‍♀️
If they have a right to improve the property its not working in their favour is it ?

Repainting some bedrooms is a small price to pay for someone else paying your mortgage. Don't try and pretend otherwise.
And there is a different between damage and wear and tear.

They pay for a service provided, whether i pay my mortgage with it or set fire to it is my business.

I am referring to damages not wear and tear.

That generally is covered by cleaning and ongoing maintenance.

That should be for them to decide, in my view.

But this is all hypothetical as we have a tory government that would rather degrade renters rights, than reduce landlords profit margins by even a tiny amount.

When I was renting, I always looked at the landlord first, and the property second. There are some kind ones out there.

It is up to them. They can ask before moving in if they can decorate, based on that information they decide if they want to take the house

I don't need to ask who you are planning vote for.

If a LL offers accommodation which is clean, fit for purpose and the decoration is of a good standard then I don't think it's 'immoral' if they decide they don't want a tenant doing their own decorating, which may not necessarily be competently done, or may be a colour which is difficult to re-paint. Even if a contract states the property must be returned to its original condition, it doesn't always happen...

I'm reminded of decorating my ds's bedroom in black and orange (his choice) when he was about 10. No way would I have expected to be allowed to do that in a rental.

I'm in complete agreement about wishing there were major reforms around renting to give greater security and autonomy- but as things stand in the U.K. where it is SO much better to own a home, I can't blame LL who don't care to completely redecorate their property at their own expense when it was perfectly acceptable in the first place

Most landlords don't even allow pictures on the wall though.
The reality for most renters these days is being shunted between expensive poorly maintained magnolia boxes.
That's no way to expect people to live.

It's the lack of autonomy and security that is the fundamental issue, not decoration per se, which is just an illustration of the point.

For eg German tenancies last, on average, 11 years compared to only 2.5 years in England.

I agree @Kabalagala, it's no way to live, which is why I've said consistently on this thread that I wish there were major rent reforms and that as things stand in the U.K., it's hugely preferable to be a homeowner, even given the fact that house values rocket sky high, way above inflation, and then plateau or fall, in a cycle.

I voted Labour all my life, so wind your neck in.

Rental properties are not the issue. There’s a young lad on Instagram who I actually really admired until about 830 this morning when he “dropped a reel” because he bought his own little two bedroom terrace, really cute, documented how hard it worked on renovating it made it into a really nice home for him and his girlfriend and he’s got lots of Instagram followers as a result. Now the little shit bag has advised somebody on how to renovate a three bedroom home he bought for 230 grand into a seven bedroomed HMO. Naturally wants congratulating because it actually looks habitable so that’s something. But that property will generate £50,000 in income. It won’t be taxed properly, they’ll be no national insurance contributions coming from the 50,000. And of course a family home has been removed from the property pool.
Combined with Airbnb, that’s where your target enemy as if you ask me.

Fair enough, apologies.

Can I ask the reason why you don't offer longer tenancies, say 5 years +?

Is it not a long term investment? No demand from tenants?

As I already said, you appear to have no idea how markets are. You also don't appear to understand the effect of credit availability and cost to the market. This is rather worrying as you appear, from a later post, to be an estate agent.

@xxyzz and I have already explained to you how the housing market works (and indeed the grocery market too).
I'm not sure why you and @freyamay74 seem to think that house prices will zoom up again ? in 4 years (in real terms, obviously). I think it must be the British obsession with house prices.

I think if it was a proven entity somebody who had been with me for two years also looked after the place and consistently paid their rent. I would like a five year plus tenancy because I’ve absolutely no intention of selling the house for another 15 years and at that point, the person could indeed do whatever they liked were there however, I would require a guarantor with that as well having been burnt in the past.

My experience as a landlord in the UK is that there’s absolutely no stability in terms of tenants. They just seem to move every 18 months, leaving a trail of death and disaster behind them. In Australia, they have a bad tenants list for all letting agent check before they’ll approve your tenancy and a court can have you out in two weeks. If you are four weeks behind in your rent often it will take longer than that because the court will try and give them a little bit of time if they’ve got children.